COVID the 3rd (2 Viewers)

[Desertkiwi]

One of the issues I have with comparing such statistics is the difference in what constitutes a Covid death between counties. These differences make it difficult to compare directly and often give misleading results.

For example in Sweden they don’t require a death certificate stating Covid as the cause of death, instead anyone dying with the virus is automatically matched with the national death registry with covid positive results.

In that sense it could be argued that Sweden’s covid death rate is actually being over reported.

Discrepancies such as this are common and largely over looked by the media and a number of key health officials and politicians.

Statistics such as those being rolled out every night in the media with pretty graphics and fancy rhetoric need to be analysed more fully to gain a truer picture. In that sense main stream media are failing dismally IMO.

Over the few years I’ve grown increasingly disillusioned with the way our news is being presented. At times its seems like they’re pitching to the intellect of a 10yr old.

While Sweden’s covid death rate seems high compared with other countries, it pays to look a little harder.

 

[The Military Workshop]

but Old Lives Matter.....don't they?
I can't see any conspiracy in the number of actual patients in hospital, including ICU units or the ages of patients. Obviously senior patients will be impacted more than younger people

Matt,
Actually it won't surprise you to know I am more of an "All lives matter" kinda guy^&grin
Was not suggesting a conspiracy merely pointing out the statistic of hospital and ICU admissions was one that was updated daily previously. So far 83 Avalon related cases and no mention of anybody in a hospital. Yet we have state border points being set up again and states requesting hundreds of Army to assist in stopping free travel. Heard the PM today say the effect of any vaccines in preventing outbreaks might not come into real effect until late next year. So I guess that means states will be shutting borders every time an outbreak pops up. But not to worry because the Chief Health Officers will look at their successes in keeping Covid stats down whilst people lose their businesses and probably life savings.

Saw a tweet today, below, from a Scottsh father about his son in UK. He would not count towards any Covid statistic in UK or here. As I said I am an "All lives matter" kind of guy and I want Governments to consider all factors, including economic, rather than just their Covid stats.

This is our beautiful son Jack. During lockdown he was living alone 80 miles away. He lost his job, a month later he split from his girlfriend. He could not see his friends. The help he was getting was not enough. He took his own life yesterday. We loved him so much. 25 years old pic.twitter.com/5RMardsfby

 

[TomNT]

All

Here's some more video links on Covid-19 related matters.

https://thehighwire.com/videos/the-biggest-experiment-ever-done/

This is a good video of Award-winning virologist, Dr. Sucharit Bhakdi talking about Covid-19 vaccines

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2mLz-Xdpg&feature=share

Here’s a good video about the benefits of Vitamin D against Covid-19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq8SXOBy-4w&feature=share

I posted this video link previously of a US doctor presenting a compelling argument in a US Senate hearing in why Ivermectin is a wonder drug to combat Covid-19

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6215928983001

Here’s a video link that was recorded on 13 December 2020 and it tells how Australian Health Bureaucrats have stopped Professor Thomas Borody despite clear evidence Ivermectin is a success in combating Covid-19

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq9Z6S3t_g

This video was recorded on 2 September 2020 and it’s an interview of Australian Professor Thomas Borody providing an update on his progress to use Ivermectin to combat Covid-19

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F6A6RFDprIs

This video was recorded on 7 August 2020 and it’s an interview of Australian Professor Thomas Borody speaking about the benefits of Ivermectin to combat Covid-19

https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/welcome-to-the-covid-testing-industrial

This article is about how the Covid-19 testing regime has now become this massive tax payer funded industry in the US

Tom

 

[OzDigger]

The following link explains the differences in the statistics used, i.e Case Fatality Rate (CFR), Crude Mortality Rate (CMR) and Infection Fatality Rate (IFR).

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid

The IFR will always be lower than the CFR as it is includes known cases Plus an Estimate of the number of people in the population that are Infected but Don't know it, and of course most of those will be Younger people.

Some people confuse the different rates and imagine numbers are being over estimated.

Conversely the Case Fatality Rate will be much Higher in Older infected people than the standard rate.

 

[jazzeum]

I see that Ivermectin is posted as a wonder drug. It is not nor is it approved for use in this country. Most evidence is anecdotal and there have been no clinical studies saying it’s effective. It should not be taken absent a scientific clinical study. In fact, the adverse effects include nausea and vomiting. Interestingly, this doctor was called before a hearing of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee chaired by Senator Ron Johnson, who seeks to discredit science and has a political agenda.

 

[tdubel]

I see that Ivermectin is posted as a wonder drug. It is not nor is it approved for use in this country. Most evidence is anecdotal and there have been no clinical studies saying it’s effective. It should not be taken absent a scientific clinical study. In fact, the adverse effects include nausea and vomiting. Interestingly, this doctor was called before a hearing of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee chaired by Senator Ron Johnson, who seeks to discredit science and has a political agenda.

Brad,
I agree in that I would not be taking any drug unless it is approved. I try to limit any drug intake unless I absolutely need it or my doctor prescribes it.

And unfortunately politics will continue to jump into this mess in any way they can aided and abetted by the Press. Just a sad cycle.

TD

 

[wds0855]

I just recently read article which at first I thought must be incorrect or a hoax. However I found this same information being reported by various news sources.

Now I just want to say I believe that this virus is real, and it is dangerous. My family and I always wear masks in public and we all plan on getting the vaccine when it is available. But let's get back to my source of confusion.

I have been to San Francisco on many occasions. To say it has a huge homeless population is quite an understatement. Now in any city, the homeless population is going to be typically the population in the poorest health (outside of the elderly in nursing homes) and also with no health insurance. So logically I would think a city with a VERY large homeless population would have a large number of deaths caused by this virus.

However according to these news sources that is not the case, instead they report for San Francisco :

173 deaths from COIVD in 2020.

621 deaths from drug overdoses in 2020.

Here are two new source examples, there are others:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireS...utpace-covid-19-deaths-san-francisco-74823530

Overdose Deaths Far Outpace COVID-19 Deaths in San Francisco | California News | US News

How does this reckon with a virus that spreads so rapidly and is so deadly? What am I missing?

Walt

 

[tdubel]

I posted this before but I think it is quite relevant. As demonstrated by the posts of numbers, you can manipulate them anyway you want to make a point. What I have learned throughout this mess is the following: (Applicable to the USA)

A. Wear a mask, its easy (I don't know yet nor does anyone else know how much it is statistically helping, but if a surgeon thinks its a good idea, so do I)

B. Avoid crowded close contact events - a bar or small indoor dining restaurant (I know you can argue the grocery store is just as bad and not sure if I really disagree with that, but I go to the grocery store and so far, so good)

C. Statistics - if taken on face value, Governor Cuomo of NY should be in Jail and Governor DeSantis of Florida could be nominated for a medal.........................wrong, they both did a horrendous job - Nursing Homes in NY is an unmentionable and Florida is so cavalier, it gives me pause.

D. Numbers in general continue to be near worthless as there is no consistency in reporting across 50 States and countless jurisdictions, furthermore they have been manipulated in many different ways for lots of reasons - mainly political. One thing is for certain, whether it is 300K deaths from COVID or 100,000 it is 1 too many.

E. The Press should be taken out en masse and flogged, executed, etc in the "town square". They continue to be part of the problem and not the solution.

F. Vaccine is going to be the only answer, hopefully it is as effective in practice as the trials. Now only time will tell.

G. Now for the opinion that I also believe to be fact part - China should be held fully accountable, responsible, you name it. They caused this mess to that is probably the only fact not in doubt. They will continue to deflect and spin anyway they can, but if there is one thing the entire world should unite on - it is this.

Off soapbox

TD

 

[joesgis]

Very well stated, Tom. I would put point G in bold.

Joe

 

[Combat]

I wouldn't count on China being held accountable for anything. They have a vice like grip on our politicians and celebrities due to their influence and money. You don't see any NBA player, for example, criticizing China. That speaks volumes. Those guys know it will cost them money. That is just a minor issue. The real concern is the control they exert over our politicians and businesses. Many businesses and lobbying organizations have direct ties to China. And they are scared to jump without their permission. Like term limits and flat taxes, those riding the gravy train in Congress would have to change the laws in such a way as to be against their own interests to punish China. So it's never going to happen.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Matt,
Actually it won't surprise you to know I am more of an "All lives matter" kinda guy^&grin
Was not suggesting a conspiracy merely pointing out the statistic of hospital and ICU admissions was one that was updated daily previously. So far 83 Avalon related cases and no mention of anybody in a hospital. Yet we have state border points being set up again and states requesting hundreds of Army to assist in stopping free travel. Heard the PM today say the effect of any vaccines in preventing outbreaks might not come into real effect until late next year. So I guess that means states will be shutting borders every time an outbreak pops up. But not to worry because the Chief Health Officers will look at their successes in keeping Covid stats down whilst people lose their businesses and probably life savings.

Saw a tweet today, below, from a Scottsh father about his son in UK. He would not count towards any Covid statistic in UK or here. As I said I am an "All lives matter" kind of guy and I want Governments to consider all factors, including economic, rather than just their Covid stats.

This is our beautiful son Jack. During lockdown he was living alone 80 miles away. He lost his job, a month later he split from his girlfriend. He could not see his friends. The help he was getting was not enough. He took his own life yesterday. We loved him so much. 25 years old pic.twitter.com/5RMardsfby

Brett, loads of Kiwi's here watching developments in Oz very closely, especially being so near Christmas. Some experts here are comparing the current Australian response to what NZ authorities did as a result of our tiny August 'covid cluster' which saw Auckland back in 'lockdown again for several weeks and cut off from the rest of the country. Seeing the impact of that on us would hate to see that happen to Aussie cities.

 

[Desertkiwi]

I posted this before but I think it is quite relevant. As demonstrated by the posts of numbers, you can manipulate them anyway you want to make a point. What I have learned throughout this mess is the following: (Applicable to the USA)

A. Wear a mask, its easy (I don't know yet nor does anyone else know how much it is statistically helping, but if a surgeon thinks its a good idea, so do I)

B. Avoid crowded close contact events - a bar or small indoor dining restaurant (I know you can argue the grocery store is just as bad and not sure if I really disagree with that, but I go to the grocery store and so far, so good)

C. Statistics - if taken on face value, Governor Cuomo of NY should be in Jail and Governor DeSantis of Florida could be nominated for a medal.........................wrong, they both did a horrendous job - Nursing Homes in NY is an unmentionable and Florida is so cavalier, it gives me pause.

D. Numbers in general continue to be near worthless as there is no consistency in reporting across 50 States and countless jurisdictions, furthermore they have been manipulated in many different ways for lots of reasons - mainly political. One thing is for certain, whether it is 300K deaths from COVID or 100,000 it is 1 too many.

E. The Press should be taken out en masse and flogged, executed, etc in the "town square". They continue to be part of the problem and not the solution.

F. Vaccine is going to be the only answer, hopefully it is as effective in practice as the trials. Now only time will tell.

G. Now for the opinion that I also believe to be fact part - China should be held fully accountable, responsible, you name it. They caused this mess to that is probably the only fact not in doubt. They will continue to deflect and spin anyway they can, but if there is one thing the entire world should unite on - it is this.

Off soapbox

TD

I like 'E'. I think a flogging may be too good for some of them though. They talk about the freedom of the press but they're rarely ever held to account. The over inflated hype and fearmongering by them at times has simply been appalling.......a bunch of muppets in suites and pretty frocks.

 

[mikemiller1955]

here's some funky bad news...

UK residents are banned from traveling to 30 nations due to outbreak of newer mutation of Covid...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/21/who...new-strain-in-uk-appears-more-contagious.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/21/world/uk-travel-ban.html

 

[marco55]

I like 'E'. I think a flogging may be too good for some of them though. They talk about the freedom of the press but they're rarely ever held to account. The over inflated hype and fearmongering by them at times has simply been appalling.......a bunch of muppets in suites and pretty frocks.

They are a disgrace.
Mark

 

[OzDigger]

I just recently read article which at first I thought must be incorrect or a hoax. However I found this same information being reported by various news sources.

Now I just want to say I believe that this virus is real, and it is dangerous. My family and I always wear masks in public and we all plan on getting the vaccine when it is available. But let's get back to my source of confusion.

I have been to San Francisco on many occasions. To say it has a huge homeless population is quite an understatement. Now in any city, the homeless population is going to be typically the population in the poorest health (outside of the elderly in nursing homes) and also with no health insurance. So logically I would think a city with a VERY large homeless population would have a large number of deaths caused by this virus.

However according to these news sources that is not the case, instead they report for San Francisco :

173 deaths from COIVD in 2020.

621 deaths from drug overdoses in 2020.

Here are two new source examples, there are others:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireS...utpace-covid-19-deaths-san-francisco-74823530

Overdose Deaths Far Outpace COVID-19 Deaths in San Francisco | California News | US News

How does this reckon with a virus that spreads so rapidly and is so deadly? What am I missing?

Walt

Maybe the authorities in the US took a lot of homeless people off the streets and rehoused them. That is what happened in Australia. There continues to be a surplus of single rooms available in hotels, motels and student accommodation due to the pandemic. Homeless people across Australia were rehoused in these spare rooms and have actually done pretty well out of the Covid19 outbreak.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06...ic-has-worked-lets-make-it-permanent/12330442

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06...m-homelessness-to-hope-after-covid19/12346272

I would guess that most of those rehoused in Australia were homeless due to economic reasons, those with mental issues and drug addictions may be more likely to continue sleeping rough and moving alot.

 

[tdubel]

I wouldn't count on China being held accountable for anything. They have a vice like grip on our politicians and celebrities due to their influence and money. You don't see any NBA player, for example, criticizing China. That speaks volumes. Those guys know it will cost them money. That is just a minor issue. The real concern is the control they exert over our politicians and businesses. Many businesses and lobbying organizations have direct ties to China. And they are scared to jump without their permission. Like term limits and flat taxes, those riding the gravy train in Congress would have to change the laws in such a way as to be against their own interests to punish China. So it's never going to happen.

Very true post. Unfortunately the proverbial ship has sailed on the China issue long ago in lots of ways and I agree we will not see them held accountable. All you have to do is look at statements from places like the CDC ie the 80% would have been saved if not for blah blah blah. The correct statement should be 100% would have been saved IF NOT FOR CHINA's incompetence or malevolence in the first place.

TD

 

[Desertkiwi]

I wouldn't count on China being held accountable for anything. They have a vice like grip on our politicians and celebrities due to their influence and money. You don't see any NBA player, for example, criticizing China. That speaks volumes. Those guys know it will cost them money. That is just a minor issue. The real concern is the control they exert over our politicians and businesses. Many businesses and lobbying organizations have direct ties to China. And they are scared to jump without their permission. Like term limits and flat taxes, those riding the gravy train in Congress would have to change the laws in such a way as to be against their own interests to punish China. So it's never going to happen.

You only have to look at China's harsh reaction to Australia's repeated call for them to be held to account for the Covid out-break as a perfect example of their attitude towards any form of criticism.

With any luck their ridiculous trade tariff's will come back to bite them.

 

[OzDigger]

here's some funky bad news...

UK residents are banned from traveling to 30 nations due to outbreak of newer mutation of Covid...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/21/who...new-strain-in-uk-appears-more-contagious.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/21/world/uk-travel-ban.html

I've read comments that the variant is 70% more infectious than the 'regular' Virus. I would hope that most forum members agree that restricting its spread is a Good idea.

 

[OzDigger]

I wouldn't count on China being held accountable for anything. They have a vice like grip on our politicians and celebrities due to their influence and money. You don't see any NBA player, for example, criticizing China. That speaks volumes. Those guys know it will cost them money. That is just a minor issue. The real concern is the control they exert over our politicians and businesses. Many businesses and lobbying organizations have direct ties to China. And they are scared to jump without their permission. Like term limits and flat taxes, those riding the gravy train in Congress would have to change the laws in such a way as to be against their own interests to punish China. So it's never going to happen.

Very true post. Unfortunately the proverbial ship has sailed on the China issue long ago in lots of ways and I agree we will not see them held accountable. All you have to do is look at statements from places like the CDC ie the 80% would have been saved if not for blah blah blah. The correct statement should be 100% would have been saved IF NOT FOR CHINA's incompetence or malevolence in the first place.

TD

You only have to look at China's harsh reaction to Australia's repeated call for them to be held to account for the Covid out-break as a perfect example of their attitude towards any form of criticism.

With any luck their ridiculous trade tariff's will come back to bite them.

Looks like the China Syndrome (yes my tag ha ha) is one of the few Covid issues that we can agree on :salute::

 

[tdubel]

Looks like the China Syndrome (yes my tag ha ha) is one of the few Covid issues that we can agree on :salute::

Correct but I didn't know there were many COVID issues that are in doubt?? Other than a dictionary definition of a vaccine versus an inoculation, I don't think most of my thoughts personally are off the beaten path. I do question a complete lockdown versus smart movements through cleaning and social distancing. Great example of that are public school systems in Maryland - ours is 100% virtual, not all Counties are and there are not measurable differences in positives here according to the studies in my State. Another irony, they held SAT testing in my County at the public schools (4 hrs on a Saturday of mass amount of people) yet the schools are locked down for learning? No COVID epidemic resulted from the SAT. I could name a million scenarios and spin it 10 different ways and that is the problem because any data any of us are getting has throughout COVID been arbitrary, contradictory and wholly unreliable. As I have said many times, you just can't make it up. Even Fauci who is an expert at times has been moronic in his statements. Do I think for the most part he knows what he is doing or is at a minimum highly intelligent, YES, but I think he is a great example of "as a whole in the US" we got blindsided by this and seemingly at times continue the "stupid is as stupid does" reaction life cycle. As I said, you just can't make it up, we failed as a whole, it was a complete failure from top to bottom and I truly believe that is because we were caught way off guard and it took a painfully long time to realize just how bad this could be.


When I say I question the lockdown strategy, I mean just that, I don't know if it works or it doesn't b/c it seemingly changes on a daily basis. Common sense says it helps, but I don't know actually how much.

One thing I do believe is that the numbers will never be reliable to a great extent unfortunately, so we will probably never be able to measure effectiveness and accuracy of any of the methods employed. I think common sense will tell you that indoor close quarter events are not a good idea but not sure we will have 100% scientific data to "prove that". Call me a cynic, but I like to deal with reality when it comes to numbers, it is the mathematician in me. It's not an emotional exercise, but if you have garbage data coming in, you are going to get garbage results.

Tom