COVID the 3rd (3 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well that's all well and good about social distancing, but it's hard to do at work, on the street, at the post office, grocery store or any retail store I've been in.

No disrespect, but you sound like my cousin, he goes on and on about how bad masks are for you, how more people died during the Spanish flu from infections caused by masks vs the actual flu, how he only wears one "at his families insistence" when he goes out in public and how he's not getting the COVID shot as he has never had the flu shot and hasn't had the flu in 15 years.

It's that sort of thinking that will keep COVID around for years to come, but as I always tell him "Well, then you just keep being you then"...........................

I totally get what you're saying. I'm just pointing out they're are also health risks associated with wearing masks too which are often glossed over or not even raised.

As I mentioned I've had to wear them along with PPE for long periods while at work and they're bloody awful things to wear. I start over heating in an air-conditioned office with one on let alone working out doors exerting myself during my job.

This isn't me having a moan its simply the reality of my working environment.

As for surgeons wearing them, they work in highly controlled environments with loads of support staff around them, which is hardly the same is climbing a set of stairs or walking down the street.

I'm not sure what comparing me with your cousin is all about but if it makes you happy then sure go right ahead.
 
Last edited:
Where I work it was easily over 100 this year and in July there was no let up so eventually they said we could work in our areas without one as we are spread out and there aren't too many of us. It was either that or shut the place down as everybody even the maskers said it was too hot to wear one.
Mark
 
I totally get what you're saying. I'm just pointing out they're are also health risks associated with wearing masks too which are often glossed over or not even raised.

As I mentioned I've had to wear them along with PPE for long periods while at work and they're bloody awful things to wear. I start over heating in an air-conditioned office with one on let alone working out doors exerting myself during my job.

This isn't me having a moan its simply the reality of my working environment.

As for surgeons wearing them, they work in highly controlled environments with loads of support staff around them, which is hardly the same is climbing a set of stairs or walking down the street.

I'm not sure what comparing me with your cousin is all about but if it makes you happy then sure go right ahead.

I agree there is a huge difference between wearing one while sawing away on a patient vs while you're sawing away on a log in 100 degree heat...................for me, wearing one going in and out of the post office was a drag in the Summer, I also went to an older ladies condo recently to clear out her late husbands collection and it was 1,000 degrees in there, I soaked through three masks and it was uncomfortable as Hell.

This is the reason why I won't go near a toy soldier show if masks are required; wearing one while unloading, setting up, selling, breaking down and humping the merchandise out to my vehicle is a total non starter for me.

The vaccine can't come soon enough for me so I can hopefully go back to somewhat of a normal life, whatever normal actually is on the other side of this will be a whole other story.

I wasn't comparing you to my cousin, your comments just reminded me of him, he carpet bombs me with stories about masks, vaccines, etc, etc, like I give a toss, I told him send me all the stories you want to try to prove your point, I'm sticking to wearing a mask and I'm getting the vaccine as soon as it's offered to me.

If he wants to **** around and not wear a mask and not get the vaccine, that's his choice, sort of like it would also be his choice to go tap dancing in a mine field or swimming with sharks.......................none of those choices are for me, but hey, whatever makes him happy.

I sort of get the impression he's doing it now just to bust balls.

Sort of sad that you find out about someone when things go sideways and it's a bit disappointing listening to him drone on about all the negatives about masks and vaccines, you find out the cut of a mans jib when the **** hits the fan I guess.........................
 
As a Type 1 diabetic getting the virus is essentially a death sentence, at best I would struggle to survive and as shown by diabetics who do survive, the aftermath would be awful.

With that being said maybe the masks help, maybe they don’t. The maybe is good enough for me considering the facts show what happens to me if I do get the Virus.

Its a mask, not a full body cast.
 
Last edited:
I agree there is a huge difference between wearing one while sawing away on a patient vs while you're sawing away on a log in 100 degree heat...................for me, wearing one going in and out of the post office was a drag in the Summer, I also went to an older ladies condo recently to clear out her late husbands collection and it was 1,000 degrees in there, I soaked through three masks and it was uncomfortable as Hell.

This is the reason why I won't go near a toy soldier show if masks are required; wearing one while unloading, setting up, selling, breaking down and humping the merchandise out to my vehicle is a total non starter for me.

The vaccine can't come soon enough for me so I can hopefully go back to somewhat of a normal life, whatever normal actually is on the other side of this will be a whole other story.

I wasn't comparing you to my cousin, your comments just reminded me of him, he carpet bombs me with stories about masks, vaccines, etc, etc, like I give a toss, I told him send me all the stories you want to try to prove your point, I'm sticking to wearing a mask and I'm getting the vaccine as soon as it's offered to me.

If he wants to **** around and not wear a mask and not get the vaccine, that's his choice, sort of like it would also be his choice to go tap dancing in a mine field or swimming with sharks.......................none of those choices are for me, but hey, whatever makes him happy.

I sort of get the impression he's doing it now just to bust balls.

Sort of sad that you find out about someone when things go sideways and it's a bit disappointing listening to him drone on about all the negatives about masks and vaccines, you find out the cut of a mans jib when the **** hits the fan I guess.........................

I’ve never had the pleasure of attending a TS show of any kind but can imagine having to wear a face mask/gloves etc at one would be hugely frustrating, let alone trying to set up stock for one and communicate with customers.

I’ve found trying to discuss anything while wearing a mask and relay instructions of any kind or simply trying to chat to someone is very challenging. People often forget how much we humans communicate via facial expressions and general body language. Covering up half of your face just adds confusion. At times at work we have to resort to writing notes to the people we’re dealing with which just complicates things further.

I feel for anyone having to wear full PPE in their job, particularly medical staff and first responders.

I too have an annoying relative who likes the sound of their own voice and has an opinion on everything and who I avoid like the plague at any family gathering. Despite my best 007 impersonation, he eventually hunts me down and hits me up for everything under the sun until the Mrs finally comes to my rescue. He’s worse than a ‘dog with a bone’ and will kick off round two if I’m not careful. The family thinks its hilarious.

I think we can all agree Covids a hugely controversial issue in which everyone has an opinion of sorts. Like many I’d be more than pleased if they eventually make a vaccine that can waste this virus and leave us with no lasting after effects or long term health issues. However I’m just not that optimistic knowing what I know.
 
It's been my dream to attend the Chicago TS show or the show they used to have in Texas. The nearest we have in Australia is the K & C Dinners, and even those were cancelled here this year.

I hope that the world returns to normal soon and I can again dream to make it to America and meet people in person that I've known for many years.
 
It's been my dream to attend the Chicago TS show or the show they used to have in Texas. The nearest we have in Australia is the K & C Dinners, and even those were cancelled here this year.

I hope that the world returns to normal soon and I can again dream to make it to America and meet people in person that I've known for many years.

Matt,

If you come, dinner and drinks are on me.:salute::
 
The CDC is saying that by the time the vaccines start to make a major impact in the May/June time frame over 500,000 American will have died.
They also said that "80%" of those deaths could have been prevented.

Very simple....wear a mask when you go out, abide by social distancing and practice good hygiene! Nothing is 100% but we know what works best
and its not that tough relative to getting sick or dying!
So stop whining and ignore the conspiracy theories.......hopefully there is an end in sight.
 
That is incorrect. The AMA has not changed its stance on hydro chloroquine. The resolution was never adopted. This is a fiction of right wing media.

Brad is right. The document I was looking at was the resolution that was not approved at meeting a couple of weeks later.

However some interesting points I have cut and pasted from a much longer summary from the Medspage today web page :

Desttheevidencethat has shown that hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine aren't effective for patients with COVID-19, a frustrated group of physicians are urging the American Medical Association (AMA) to rescind itsMarch statementthat discouraged physicians from prescribing the unproven drug for that purpose, even as an early-stage treatment.

This resolution, led by Atlanta rheumatologist John Goldman, MD, an alternate delegate representing the Medical Association of Georgia, was considered at the AMA Special Meeting of its House of Delegates. He said the March statement, issued jointly by the AMA and two pharmacists' organizations, was hurting physicians' ability to help patients infected.
The AMA shouldn't make statements that interfere with what a physician thinks is best for his or her patients, Goldman and several of his supporters said.
"The combination, if used early, is effective, safe and not expensive, and I've had it work in my patients," Goldman told members of an AMA reference committee on science and public health. "But I've had problems getting hydroxychloroquine because pharmacies refuse to dispense it."
He also has been faced with having to fill out pharmacy prior authorization approval requests "for any use of it" because "the AMA said it was inappropriate to prescribe it and joined the pharmacists against us."
"Believe me, if you get COVID-19, no matter what is said, you will want the combination of a therapy early," he said.
Goldman acknowledged that the data do not show HCQ's benefit for COVID patients in the hospital, nor is there evidence that it prevents infection, but he believes the drug or drug combinations may work very early during the course of the disease.

But Goldman's proposal was met with fierce opposition during much of the hour devoted to discussing it.
Not all doctors wanted to toss Goldman's resolution. A few said that the AMA had no business telling doctors what they should or shouldn't prescribe.
Robert Frankel, MD, a cardiologist representing the Medical Society of the State of New York, spoke as an individual. He said the AMA's March statement discouraging doctors from prescribing HCQ was "an extremely slippery slope" -- one that undermines the doctor-patient relationship and the ability to prescribe what he or she believes is best for the patient.
"All of us have used FDA-approved drugs and devices in off-label conditions for the benefit of our patients," he said. He added that physicians have had just 6 or 7 months of experience using the drug for COVID patients, and noted that researchers have rushed to publish those articles, only to retract them later. The FDA also has given emergency use authorization for certain therapies believed to be effective, which were then revoked a few months later.
"We have not exhausted the possibilities of this drug in various different populations and subpopulations for the AMA to determine what is -- quote-unquote -- appropriate," Frankel said. "For the AMA to single out this drug was clearly political and inappropriate and I speak strongly in support of this resolution."
Several speakers suggested that the support for the proposed legislation and/or the opposition to it was influenced by politics, not science".

The last sentence is a common complaint. There seem to be plenty of Dr's who have used HCQ with good results. In the absence of any other options so far and considering it has been used for 60 years. If Dr Frankel was your Dr and you were in an ICU I guess it would be up to you if listen to him.
 
Last edited:
The CDC is saying that by the time the vaccines start to make a major impact in the May/June time frame over 500,000 American will have died.
They also said that "80%" of those deaths could have been prevented.

That would be the same CDC that said that less than 10% of Covid deaths were actually of Covid as opposed to with Covid. Major difference.

My favorite example so far is this one below. There are multiple references to the story online.

Coroner Brenda Bock of Grand County, Colorado has claimed of their five total deaths attributed to the coronavirus were really deaths as a result of gunshot wounds.A report from CBS in Denver revealed that authorities were counting any dead people who tested positive for coronavirus in the last 30 days as “deaths among cases” – even if they really died from shootings, with Coroner Brenda Brock telling local media “two of their five deaths related to COVID-19 were people who died of gunshot wounds.”
“It’s absurd that they would even put that on there,” Bock said.…

One link is CORONER: 40% Of Colorado County's COVID Deaths Were Actually Gunshot Wounds - National File where they mention CDC policies affecting reporting.

Not saying Covid is not a problem but the above is interesting to say the least.
 
The CDC is saying that by the time the vaccines start to make a major impact in the May/June time frame over 500,000 American will have died.
They also said that "80%" of those deaths could have been prevented.

Very simple....wear a mask when you go out, abide by social distancing and practice good hygiene! Nothing is 100% but we know what works best
and its not that tough relative to getting sick or dying!
So stop whining and ignore the conspiracy theories.......hopefully there is an end in sight.

It's almost funny if it wasn't such a tragedy that the CDC says 80% could have been saved since they dropped the ball many many times on this. I think the vast majority of Americans tried to do the right things at first until everyone started playing politics with it . I hear the nursing homes are still in bad shape. This started out as everyone trying to the right thing and possibly ending up a national disgrace.
Mark
 
Last edited:
An informative and accurate video regarding Fact checking claims about lockdown (and Sweden)



The video is mainly about the proven effectiveness of Lockdowns in reducing the impact of disease including Covid19. And why it's more accurate to compare countries with similar climate, cultures and health systems etc.

The Sweden comparison starts around 19 minutes into the video. In a nutshell at that stage the Death Rate per Million infected in Sweden was Four times Denmark, Eight times Finland and Ten times Norway. Even worse than the Triple rate I mentioned in my earlier post.
 
This post has had so many differing takes on the pandemic/masks/vaccines etc., but it is worth pointing out that this discussion has always been cordial, with most if not all, respecting other’s opinions even if one didn’t agree with those opinions.
 
OZD mentioned Sweden which has got much comment over its handling of Covid. Notably it did not close down businesses or impose a lockdown. I read over the weekend that it's death rate per capita in Europe was the 12th highest. Admittedly its deaths were higher than other Scandinavian countries. Incidentally its population is about 10 million compared to Norway, Finland and Denmark which are roughly 5 million each.


However a closer look at their deaths shows 3,315 were in age 80 - 90 group. 1654 were aged 70-79 and 2150 were over 90. That leaves about 10% who were under 69. I can't cut and paste as using IPad but stats are from a web page called Statista.



Considering 90% were over 70 you then get back to what other ailments they had apart from old age. Based on CDC statistics we know approx 90% die with Covid as opposed to of Covid.


Consider the county in Colorado I mentioned and look at in in simple terms. 40% of their Covid case died due to bullets ! Ok the 40% was 2/5 but that is the fun of statistics. I always remember a quote I saw in the Mess in my first police station in Hong Kong. It was by the head of CID and said some thing like Homicides don't affect my crime statistics at all.


Not trying to down play the deaths but to me the Covid infections and deaths are not the only thing that should be taken into account. In my state it has been quite clear the Chief Health Officer has only considered Covid when considering lockdowns etc. We have had 6 deaths very early on with average age over 80. Never heard her mention the impact of emptying hospital of patients, delayed operations and preventative testing for cancers etc let alone suicides or ruined businesses due to her decisions. How about the impact on families living interstate who could not visit their elderly relatives dying of normal causes in aged care homes. All these factors don't seem to count.


It would be interesting to compare how the economy went in Sweden. If people were still out shopping and eating etc then presumably income was still being generated instead of people relying upon Government handouts which are not sustainable. States in Australia would not have been so keen on lockdowns and border closures if they did not have so much Fededal financial support. Naturally that is borrowed money just as it is in USA.


Striking the balance is hard but what Sweden did was give their people a choice. If you wanted to stay at home you could. If you wanted to get take away or dine indoors surrounded by others then your choice. How about letting families decide if they wanted to risk being with their sick relatives rather have an official make that decision for them. Those imposing the restrictions have been politicians and civil servants who generally have not been impacted financially by those decisions that have killed many small businesses. Then we have had many instances worldwide of politicians not complying with their own retriction policies.


On a personal note my daughter lives in Sydney which has now just been declared a hotspot and border retrictions now apply again. Restrictions had previously cancelled her engagement / hers and fiancées double birthday party in late March. Due to two health issues this might be my fathers last Christmas. I and my family (mainly my father) would like to make the decision whether my daughter gets to see him (after a test and with social distancing and perhaps even with a mask) rather than have a Government decide for us.


For those interested in the mask debate Spectator UK has an article about a Danish report on usefulness of masks.


As always must point out my comments relate to my experience in my state. I appreciate others are having a much worse Covid scenario where they are.




[h=1]Number of coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths in Sweden 2020, by age groups[/h][h=1]Published by Conor Stewart, Dec 18, 2020
As of December 17, 2020, the highest number of deaths due to the coronavirus in Sweden was among individuals aged 80 to 90 years old. Indeed, 3,315 deaths out of the Swedish death toll of 7,893 deaths related to people aged within this age group.

The first case of coronavirus (COVID-19) in Sweden was confirmed on February 4, 2020. The number of cases has since risen to a total of 357 thousand. For further information about the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, please visit our dedicated Facts and Figures page.



[/h]
 
The Moderna vaccine finally rolls out this week after the inexplicable bureaucratic delay in approving while 3k were dying each day. A magnificent accomplishment to develop and distribute the vaccine in such a quick time. One of the few highlights in this ordeal. Hopefully the end is near.
 
OZD mentioned Sweden which has got much comment over its handling of Covid. Notably it did not close down businesses or impose a lockdown. I read over the weekend that it's death rate per capita in Europe was the 12th highest. Admittedly its deaths were higher than other Scandinavian countries. Incidentally its population is about 10 million compared to Norway, Finland and Denmark which are roughly 5 million each.


However a closer look at their deaths shows 3,315 were in age 80 - 90 group. 1654 were aged 70-79 and 2150 were over 90. That leaves about 10% who were under 69. I can't cut and paste as using IPad but stats are from a web page called Statista.



Considering 90% were over 70 you then get back to what other ailments they had apart from old age. Based on CDC statistics we know approx 90% die with Covid as opposed to of Covid.


Consider the county in Colorado I mentioned and look at in in simple terms. 40% of their Covid case died due to bullets ! Ok the 40% was 2/5 but that is the fun of statistics. I always remember a quote I saw in the Mess in my first police station in Hong Kong. It was by the head of CID and said some thing like Homicides don't affect my crime statistics at all.


Not trying to down play the deaths but to me the Covid infections and deaths are not the only thing that should be taken into account. In my state it has been quite clear the Chief Health Officer has only considered Covid when considering lockdowns etc. We have had 6 deaths very early on with average age over 80. Never heard her mention the impact of emptying hospital of patients, delayed operations and preventative testing for cancers etc let alone suicides or ruined businesses due to her decisions. How about the impact on families living interstate who could not visit their elderly relatives dying of normal causes in aged care homes. All these factors don't seem to count.


It would be interesting to compare how the economy went in Sweden. If people were still out shopping and eating etc then presumably income was still being generated instead of people relying upon Government handouts which are not sustainable. States in Australia would not have been so keen on lockdowns and border closures if they did not have so much Fededal financial support. Naturally that is borrowed money just as it is in USA.


Striking the balance is hard but what Sweden did was give their people a choice. If you wanted to stay at home you could. If you wanted to get take away or dine indoors surrounded by others then your choice. How about letting families decide if they wanted to risk being with their sick relatives rather have an official make that decision for them. Those imposing the restrictions have been politicians and civil servants who generally have not been impacted financially by those decisions that have killed many small businesses. Then we have had many instances worldwide of politicians not complying with their own retriction policies.


On a personal note my daughter lives in Sydney which has now just been declared a hotspot and border retrictions now apply again. Restrictions had previously cancelled her engagement / hers and fiancées double birthday party in late March. Due to two health issues this might be my fathers last Christmas. I and my family (mainly my father) would like to make the decision whether my daughter gets to see him (after a test and with social distancing and perhaps even with a mask) rather than have a Government decide for us.


For those interested in the mask debate Spectator UK has an article about a Danish report on usefulness of masks.


As always must point out my comments relate to my experience in my state. I appreciate others are having a much worse Covid scenario where they are.




Number of coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths in Sweden 2020, by age groups

Published by Conor Stewart, Dec 18, 2020
As of December 17, 2020, the highest number of deaths due to the coronavirus in Sweden was among individuals aged 80 to 90 years old. Indeed, 3,315 deaths out of the Swedish death toll of 7,893 deaths related to people aged within this age group.

The first case of coronavirus (COVID-19) in Sweden was confirmed on February 4, 2020. The number of cases has since risen to a total of 357 thousand. For further information about the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, please visit our dedicated Facts and Figures page.




Brett

The figures I quoted were Deaths per Million, which is the best method of comparison as it allows for the differences in the total population of each country, in this matter Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway.

Although the initial Covid 19 prevention methods in Sweden were voluntary, a lot of people still stayed at home. And of course neighboring countries did have harsher lockdowns than Sweden which impacted freight, trade and travel between the countries. As a consequence Sweden's economy actually suffered more than neighboring countries, and more of their citizens died per million. That's a Lose Lose in anyone's book.

News article; Business Insider Australia dated August 14 noting Sweden's poor economical performance compared to neighboring countries.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8?r=US&IR=T


News article; Sydney Morning Herald dated December 16 about Sweden's poor handling of Covid 19, especially their senior citizens:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...pandemic-official-report-20201216-p56o0z.html


Sweden has recently introduced stricter lockdown procedures, perhaps the comments made recently by their King, who is 71 years old, and likely to die from Covid19, had some influence.

News article; Sydney Morning Herald dated December 20 noting Sweden's belated introduction of Harsher Lockdown measures in response to earlier Covid 19 failures:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe...-of-second-covid-19-wave-20201219-p56ovv.html
 
OzD,
I did note higher rate per million. However the point I was trying to make is 90% of deaths over age 70 and if they count like CDC and Austalia does then they are counting dying with Covid as of Covid. For the 10% under 70 then same applies.

Have you noted in past few days we are being told the number of Covid cases but there is no mention of how many are actually in hospital or ICU or ages etc. It is not as if NSW Health does not know. Yet we are in full panic mode shutting down across the country.
 
OzD,
I did note higher rate per million. However the point I was trying to make is 90% of deaths over age 70 and if they count like CDC and Austalia does then they are counting dying with Covid as of Covid. For the 10% under 70 then same applies.

Have you noted in past few days we are being told the number of Covid cases but there is no mention of how many are actually in hospital or ICU or ages etc. It is not as if NSW Health does not know. Yet we are in full panic mode shutting down across the country.

The higher rate of deaths in senior citizens was anticipated, but Old Lives Matter.....don't they? If they contract Covid19 it is more likely to kill them faster than almost anything else they are suffering from.

Early in the pandemic Australian hospitals were preparing for high numbers of Covid 19 cases. However their policy soon changed because of actual low infection numbers due to the success of our lockdown policies. It has been business as usual in all Australian hospitals for several months now, in fact I had a major operation in late October.

Obviously a different story in overseas hospitals where the infection and death numbers are far higher than Australia's. In any case Hospitals adopt the Triage method when treating patients, be it Accident and Emergency or major Diseases etc.

I can't see any conspiracy in the number of actual patients in hospital, including ICU units or the ages of patients. Obviously senior patients will be impacted more than younger people, the younger patients would most likely be allowed to recover at home, in isolation hopefully.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top