COVID the 3rd (2 Viewers)

[OzDigger]

Matt,
Actually it won't surprise you to know I am more of an "All lives matter" kinda guy^&grin
Was not suggesting a conspiracy merely pointing out the statistic of hospital and ICU admissions was one that was updated daily previously. So far 83 Avalon related cases and no mention of anybody in a hospital. Yet we have state border points being set up again and states requesting hundreds of Army to assist in stopping free travel. Heard the PM today say the effect of any vaccines in preventing outbreaks might not come into real effect until late next year. So I guess that means states will be shutting borders every time an outbreak pops up. But not to worry because the Chief Health Officers will look at their successes in keeping Covid stats down whilst people lose their businesses and probably life savings.

Saw a tweet today, below, from a Scottsh father about his son in UK. He would not count towards any Covid statistic in UK or here. As I said I am an "All lives matter" kind of guy and I want Governments to consider all factors, including economic, rather than just their Covid stats.

This is our beautiful son Jack. During lockdown he was living alone 80 miles away. He lost his job, a month later he split from his girlfriend. He could not see his friends. The help he was getting was not enough. He took his own life yesterday. We loved him so much. 25 years old pic.twitter.com/5RMardsfby

Brett,

That's good to know, I'm not getting any younger myself ^&grin


As I said earlier, younger infected people will often display no symptoms and not require hospitalisation. Older people are more vulnerable to Covid19 and will always be over represented in the statistic numbers. I mentioned 'conspiracy' because a number of people do think that Covid 19 is just another conspiracy. They often use incorrect statistics or confuse statistics to support their theories. The fact that President Trump initially confused the Case Fatality Rate with the Infection Fatality Rate (see my stats post) didn't help that issue. Although Sweden has recently increased their lockdown policies their CFR is currently higher than the US, hopefully both countries can reduce that rate.

I am hopeful vaccinations will reduce the impact of the virus however you can still carry and transmit the virus even if you've been vaccinated. We will have to wait and see how the Government(s) respond to that, most likely recommend continuance of masking, and distancing etc.

As for Australian border issues, I agree there has been overreactions in some cases. I guess it's a continuation of the suffering of the Individual being acceptable for the Greater Good, not so good for the individual. This will be the First Christmas with Covid in Australia. Aussies won't like being separated over this family holiday period, maybe politicians will be forced to relax border and other restrictions. We will have to wait and see.

 

[OzDigger]

Correct but I didn't know there were many COVID issues that are in doubt?? Other than a dictionary definition of a vaccine versus an inoculation, I don't think most of my thoughts personally are off the beaten path. I do question a complete lockdown versus smart movements through cleaning and social distancing. Great example of that are public school systems in Maryland - ours is 100% virtual, not all Counties are and there are not measurable differences in positives here according to the studies in my State. Another irony, they held SAT testing in my County at the public schools (4 hrs on a Saturday of mass amount of people) yet the schools are locked down for learning? No COVID epidemic resulted from the SAT. I could name a million scenarios and spin it 10 different ways and that is the problem because any data any of us are getting has throughout COVID been arbitrary, contradictory and wholly unreliable. As I have said many times, you just can't make it up. Even Fauci who is an expert at times has been moronic in his statements. Do I think for the most part he knows what he is doing or is at a minimum highly intelligent, YES, but I think he is a great example of "as a whole in the US" we got blindsided by this and seemingly at times continue the "stupid is as stupid does" reaction life cycle. As I said, you just can't make it up, we failed as a whole, it was a complete failure from top to bottom and I truly believe that is because we were caught way off guard and it took a painfully long time to realize just how bad this could be.


When I say I question the lockdown strategy, I mean just that, I don't know if it works or it doesn't b/c it seemingly changes on a daily basis. Common sense says it helps, but I don't know actually how much.

One thing I do believe is that the numbers will never be reliable to a great extent unfortunately, so we will probably never be able to measure effectiveness and accuracy of any of the methods employed. I think common sense will tell you that indoor close quarter events are not a good idea but not sure we will have 100% scientific data to "prove that". Call me a cynic, but I like to deal with reality when it comes to numbers, it is the mathematician in me. It's not an emotional exercise, but if you have garbage data coming in, you are going to get garbage results.

Tom

Tom, although I included your quote with Two other members in my comment, I was also referring to a number of others on the forum that had previously blamed China for the Pandemic. Which is 100% correct as they could have shut their borders immediately. I don't believe they developed the virus or released it deliberately, but they certainly were tardy in their response.

After reading different forum posts and watching the media I have to disagree with you about the number of COVID issues that are in doubt. The number of misconceptions concerning COVID that are expressed by people on this forum and people on the media in general are astounding to me. I keep asking myself how can people believe such rubbish, then repeat it as good advice. I just hope that they truly mean well rather than seek to cause deliberate harm.

I have watched several videos featuring Fauci, he seems intelligent and straight forward to me. Perhaps the fault lies with the person/people that didn't accept his advice. Maybe I'm getting too Political, but as far as I know the Covid issue is the first time that Ultra Right Wingers and Left Wingers seem to agree {eek3}

In any case I suspect increased lockdowns won't make much difference in those countries with high infection rates as the horse has already bolted. Another example of Tardiness? Deliberate or Unintentional, that doesn't matter at this stage.

 

[tdubel]

Tom, although I included your quote with Two other members in my comment, I was also referring to a number of others on the forum that had previously blamed China for the Pandemic. Which is 100% correct as they could have shut their borders immediately. I don't believe they developed the virus or released it deliberately, but they certainly were tardy in their response.

After reading different forum posts and watching the media I have to disagree with you about the number of COVID issues that are in doubt. The number of misconceptions concerning COVID that are expressed by people on this forum and people on the media in general are astounding to me. I keep asking myself how can people believe such rubbish, then repeat it as good advice. I just hope that they truly mean well rather than seek to cause deliberate harm.

I have watched several videos featuring Fauci, he seems intelligent and straight forward to me. Perhaps the fault lies with the person/people that didn't accept his advice. Maybe I'm getting too Political, but as far as I know the Covid issue is the first time that Ultra Right Wingers and Left Wingers seem to agree {eek3}

In any case I suspect increased lockdowns won't make much difference in those countries with high infection rates as the horse has already bolted. Another example of Tardiness? Deliberate or Unintentional, that doesn't matter at this stage.

Matt,

As I have often posted, I don't see anyone in Maryland walking around without a mask and I have not seen that since March which was the beginning. Some States were late to the party but again, I have to travel for work and did Texas once and everyone there had a mask on when I was there. I don't see many misconceptions in my travels. Anyone I know or have talked to or seen has taken this seriously. As a whole my State has been moderately to heightened restrictive, yet we have the same gain in cases as every other State.

We have States that locked down and they still have increases, my point is I don't know what the right path is b/c they all seem to be leading to the same thing - not good.

Also, as to Fauci, you have to really understand his full history, yes he is highly intelligent and for the most part says and does the right thing> That said, there are numerous examples of screw ups and foot in mouth which is what my point is across the board. None of them have been good or else we would not have the deaths we have. It is a failure across the board and None of them are above fault. Honestly, if they were all getting performance reviews, they all fail.

Tom

 

[marco55]

Fauci may be brillant but like a lot of super smart people he is out there in left field.He flip flops way too much and it was terrible to tell a bald face lie to the American people about masks in the beginning.I understand that first responders needed them first but that shows me he will lie about anything.I saw a group of doctors who disagreed with Fauci say to ask him how many people with the virus did he actually examine.
Mark

 

[tdubel]

While we may all come at this from different places, I think there is actually a lot people agree on. Bottom line this has been a shiiteshow from the get go, it is a continuous mess and there continue to be twists and turns that baffle the experts. Honestly , I am not sure any of them could have done any better and I long ago stopped throwing the blame anywhere but upon the originator China. I am just hopeful we are on the back end of this mess and the vaccines start to do their magic. I see light at the end of the tunnel and I am hoping for full speed ahead.

TD

 

[OzDigger]

I can understand why there was some confusion about mask wearing, the jury is still out on it's scientific effectiveness, but better than nothing as I've always said, and of course Social Distancing is more effective wherever possible.

Other COVID issues I have seen promoted on the media and elsewhere include, but not limited to;

Government plot/conspiracy theories.
Misquoting and deliberate falsification of Scientific papers.
Statistic corruption and misquotes in general.
Vaccine/Vaccination safety and effectiveness.
Lethality of SAR-COV-2.
Alternative non effective compounds and minerals for treatment of Covid19.


As for the Fauci versus Trump issue. I don't know much about their history and have only recently checked that out.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...relationship-coronavirus-pandemic/3718797001/


I don't know which side of the political fence USA Today is on, if any. However it looks to me like Fauci was more often correct than Trump. And why were they arguing in the first place, very childish considering the seriousness of the issue.

 

[marco55]

Fauci should be more correct than Trump since he is the expert. Like I said I didn't blame anybody at first but too much politics got in there even with the doctors but it is simply amazing that they went from knowing nothing about this virus to making vaccines in less than a year. There are some brilliant people out there. Thank god.
Mark

 

[OzDigger]

Fauci should be more correct than Trump since he is the expert. Like I said I didn't blame anybody at first but too much politics got in there even with the doctors but it is simply amazing that they went from knowing nothing about this virus to making vaccines in less than a year. There are some brilliant people out there. Thank god.
Mark

I agree with your comments, but there's not much point in having intelligent experts if they are ignored or undermined. Yes, too much politics..and too much 'personality' from some involved.

 

[Panzer ace]

Best quote about the vaccine I have seen so far:

I know someone who got the COVID vaccine yesterday, and I can tell you the most prominent side effect is the inability to shut up about getting the COVID vaccine....

 

[marco55]

I agree with your comments, but there's not much point in having intelligent experts if they are ignored or undermined. Yes, too much politics..and too much 'personality' from some involved.

The problem is like anything else in science the experts totally disagree with each other so it gets kind of confusing to the average guy.
Mark

 

[tdubel]

I agree with your comments, but there's not much point in having intelligent experts if they are ignored or undermined. Yes, too much politics..and too much 'personality' from some involved.

Matt,
To be fair on our side of the planet, it just wasn't one big personality. There are a number of big personalities including scientists, politicians at all levels. This was a failure top to bottom and again, I don't know if it would have worked out any other way b/c the numbers whether inflated or not are large and they are spread across all of the US where many different levels of lock down were employed and the result is unfortunately the same. I would feel as safe living in Texas as I do in Maryland and two very different approaches. I would not feel safe living in New York City where a very draconian approach occurred. So there you go. To me, not much of a difference, but I just worry about what I do and have done, not the big mouths on television including my own Governor, who by the way has sounded every bit the moron that the rest of them have sounded at times.

Anybody anywhere who puts faith in today's politician or today's press should have their head examined.

TD

 

[jazzeum]

See this story for calculating the ICU capacity in your area, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-near-you.html

Here’s an update on ICU capacity for those who would like to check their area.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[Warrior]

Matt,
To be fair on our side of the planet, it just wasn't one big personality. There are a number of big personalities including scientists, politicians at all levels. This was a failure top to bottom and again, I don't know if it would have worked out any other way b/c the numbers whether inflated or not are large and they are spread across all of the US where many different levels of lock down were employed and the result is unfortunately the same. I would feel as safe living in Texas as I do in Maryland and two very different approaches. I would not feel safe living in New York City where a very draconian approach occurred. So there you go. To me, not much of a difference, but I just worry about what I do and have done, not the big mouths on television including my own Governor, who by the way has sounded every bit the moron that the rest of them have sounded at times.

Anybody anywhere who puts faith in today's politician or today's press should have their head examined.

TD

Our governor today announced that on Saturday and for two weeks thereafter, capacity is bring cut in all retail stores and other venues by 25%.........so now instead of roaming around inside the grocery store, CVS or Walmart, people will be waiting in line outside....one in, one out, one in, one out.............yeah that will stop the spread.

As you are famous for saying; you can't make this stuff up.

 

[marco55]

That's what I said from the beginning.Instead of having all the stores open and the people spread out they had all the people jammed in 1 or 2 stores.These people have no common sense.
Mark

 

[marco55]

I saw last night that the airlines have sold over a million tickets each of the last 3 days.People just don't believe the authorities anymore.Not when they put on all these restrictions but don't follow them.That's telling me that they don't believe the virus is as dangerous as they say maybe having some inside knowledge that's being kept from the public or they are just plain stupid.
Mark

 

[OzDigger]

I saw last night that the airlines have sold over a million tickets each of the last 3 days.People just don't believe the authorities anymore.Not when they put on all these restrictions but don't follow them.That's telling me that they don't believe the virus is as dangerous as they say maybe having some inside knowledge that's being kept from the public or they are just plain stupid.
Mark

I'm going with Plain Stupid based on a previous responses.

 

[Horus]

I saw last night that the airlines have sold over a million tickets each of the last 3 days.People just don't believe the authorities anymore.Not when they put on all these restrictions but don't follow them.That's telling me that they don't believe the virus is as dangerous as they say maybe having some inside knowledge that's being kept from the public or they are just plain stupid.
Mark

As Forest Gump would say.... Stupid is as Stupid does !

Company putting me and quite a few others into (paid) Furlough again for at least next two weeks from tomorrow due to this Covid Variant that's sweeping the South East lot's of other places as well I'm sure.

2020 has turned into the year I did very little in the way of work, but it beats being dead !

So please guys, do try your best to keep yourselves and your LOVED ONES as protected from this virus as much as you can !

Steve

 

[OzDigger]

Matt,
To be fair on our side of the planet, it just wasn't one big personality. There are a number of big personalities including scientists, politicians at all levels. This was a failure top to bottom and again, I don't know if it would have worked out any other way b/c the numbers whether inflated or not are large and they are spread across all of the US where many different levels of lock down were employed and the result is unfortunately the same. I would feel as safe living in Texas as I do in Maryland and two very different approaches. I would not feel safe living in New York City where a very draconian approach occurred. So there you go. To me, not much of a difference, but I just worry about what I do and have done, not the big mouths on television including my own Governor, who by the way has sounded every bit the moron that the rest of them have sounded at times.

Anybody anywhere who puts faith in today's politician or today's press should have their head examined.

TD

Tom,
To be fair I did some 'some', as in several, not just One albeit really Big personality who likes to Twitter his feelings on a regular basis ^&grin

 

[Desertkiwi]

I saw last night that the airlines have sold over a million tickets each of the last 3 days.People just don't believe the authorities anymore.Not when they put on all these restrictions but don't follow them.That's telling me that they don't believe the virus is as dangerous as they say maybe having some inside knowledge that's being kept from the public or they are just plain stupid.
Mark

Mark, I think a lot of what you’re describing boils down to the level of trust populations have in their decision makers. This of course varies from country to country. While there’s no denying there’s no shortage of idiots in this world, there’s also plenty of intelligent, sane people out there making their own risk assessments as they go about their business.

It’s a fact that as this crisis drags on, people are becoming less tolerant of restrictions particularly if they impede individual rights and freedoms regardless of the alleged benefits.

I think 2021 is shaping up to be another challenging year for everyone, especially as the virus mutates and adapts further to its environment.

 

[jazzeum]

I just recently read article which at first I thought must be incorrect or a hoax. However I found this same information being reported by various news sources.

Now I just want to say I believe that this virus is real, and it is dangerous. My family and I always wear masks in public and we all plan on getting the vaccine when it is available. But let's get back to my source of confusion.

I have been to San Francisco on many occasions. To say it has a huge homeless population is quite an understatement. Now in any city, the homeless population is going to be typically the population in the poorest health (outside of the elderly in nursing homes) and also with no health insurance. So logically I would think a city with a VERY large homeless population would have a large number of deaths caused by this virus.

However according to these news sources that is not the case, instead they report for San Francisco :

173 deaths from COIVD in 2020.

621 deaths from drug overdoses in 2020.

Here are two new source examples, there are others:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireS...utpace-covid-19-deaths-san-francisco-74823530

Overdose Deaths Far Outpace COVID-19 Deaths in San Francisco | California News | US News

How does this reckon with a virus that spreads so rapidly and is so deadly? What am I missing?

Walt

This may help answer your question.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/23/...te=1&user_id=7033185eeb1cc866170552396b1d8f77