COVID the 3rd (4 Viewers)

[OzDigger]

Climate change is like anything else you can twist the narrative to suit your agenda. The climate has always changed ,always will. U S emissions was down lower than been in years. Lower than the Europe. You saw what happened in France this year and that's what's going to happen globally if these climate nuts continue their present course.
Mark

At least you agree that climate can change, and yes it is getting hotter in some places. Different areas will be affected differently and a hotter climate may not be a bad thing depending upon where you live. The effect of human activity on the change is difficult to quantify, and nature doesn't care what we think. However it does make sense to reduce the impact of humans wherever possible subject to economic and other considerations.

 

[OzDigger]

Matt, have you ever read anything by Dr Tim Ball (PHD) on Climate Change, if not I’d highly recommend you do.

His book ‘the deliberate corruption of climate science’ is a fascinating read.

He's a highly qualified experienced academic with an expertise in historical climatology.

He is one of many in his field speaking out about the distortion of climate science.

Why would I take notice of someone that has not done any scientific research or has an facts to support his claims. I prefer to take notice of literally thousands of people that actually work or carry out research in that science.

 

[OzDigger]

Really,.....the likes of ABC and the BBC are now producing and releasing clips to teach you how to manage friends and family who may disagree with you or express alternative views or raise concerns about the current crisis……Wow that would almost be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

Whatever happened to freedom of speech and learning to live with others.

For some reason Geroge Orwells ‘1984’ springs to mind…….

Really...is it as sad as those people that won't change their minds no matter how many facts are provided to the contrary?

In any case, the links weren't for you and a few others here, I posted them for forum members that may be having problems dealing with these issues. Maybe you haven't noticed that very few people now comment on what you and the usual suspects post. They have become so angry they no longer read them or respond.

There is no such thing as free speech or free actions if they have negative impacts on others. That's why we have laws and law enforcement, that is worth remembering.

 

[OzDigger]

Matt,
I am presuming you are referring to TomNT's links. I did click on a few but avoided pretty much all the ones referring to the vaccine. Regarding the vaccine you could spend your whole day clicking on such links and my mind is not going to change. My view is we are lucky other countries need it more than us and as a result am more than happy to wait until my turn whenever that may be. I won't be lining up to get it at the first available opportunity and no problem if it means being one of the last ones. Might be different if I was in UK / USA but simple fact is we are not.

I clicked on Tom's link to how Covid is counted in MN and it is a factual account of how the deaths are distorted and refers to a survey of actual death certificates. I gave an earlier example in Colorado where death by bullet counted as Covid. So when people refer to nearly 300,000 Covid deaths in USA I actually wonder what the true number is. Then I look at the average age of those dyng and their comorbidities etc. Same applies to VIC deaths. Not saying it is a minor virus but the way statistics have been handled has added to the fear and heavy lockdowns etc.

I also clicked on the link about the Dr being "persecuted" by local health for telling the truth. Very obviously he is a well known anti vaxxer in general so don't agree with that link. I am not anti vax.

There was another clip which showed a bunch of Dr's telling their own experiences and all seemed to have plenty of frontline medical experience. Can't say I had any issues with what they were saying. One did mention his positive use of HCQ. Don't recall noting date of when clip made. Can't remember how I came across it but saw an article about use of HCQ (plus other drugs) on the web page of the Ford Medical Foundation in Michigan. Seems they operate several hospitals and had used HCQ with positive results if used early. They emphasised recommended use only in hospital setting so could be closely monitored. Their experience was better to take take it than not and most patients were older. Report was in July. Things may have changed since then but they were going on best results at that time.

Have even seen a quote very early on in the virus from Fauci where he said lockdowns not the way to go in handling virus.

So it is not all that black and white.

Brett,

Yes I was referring to Tom's links, and a few others for that matter. I took the trouble to check every link, few of them were actual Doctors in the true sense of the word, and none of the other links were supported by any proper research papers or actual facts. You can become a Doctor of Philosophy but that isn't relevant in Science or Medicine, especially in the highly specialized field of Microbiology.

 

[The Military Workshop]

Since TomNT and OzD been posting links thought I would put up a few of my own. All from the American Institute for Economic Research.

Singapore’s Accidental Covid Experiment: Reaching Herd Immunity Safely
It is a long article but I have cut and paste some of the more interesting paras. This was toughest of lockdowns in crowded environment.

On December 14, 2020 Singapore’s Ministry of Health communicated a summary of the steps it took to contain a raging Covid-19 breakout in its migrant worker living facilities. The report itself claimed that the city-state had over 320,000 migrant workers living in cramped dormitories and around 47% or a little over 152,000 contracted Covid-19.

What has happened in Singapore is certainly a human rights violation but it has also acted as an unintentional controlled experiment that has yielded interesting information about Covid-19. There are few if any places in the world that such a controlled and thorough natural experiment occurred. The virus was let to spread rapidly through a population of low socioeconomic status, in universal as well as unsanitary living conditions, and what can be assumed to be working age. The result was only two deaths and 25 ICU admissions out of an infected population of over 152,000. Such an occurrence runs entirely counter to the prevailing narrative surrounding Covid-19.

The fatality rate for Covid-19 above the age of 70 should be seen as a controversial number, as the average human life expectancy is around 70 years old and reclassification of deaths due to comorbidities may be a strong confounding variable. The infection fatality rate was largely overestimated at the onset of the pandemic (as high as 1.6%) and more accurate estimations of that rate are now widely accepted, placing it at a much lower rate. For reference, the mortality rate for the seasonal flu put out by the WHO is under 0.1%. Obviously results can vary based on factors such as testing, access to healthcare, and so on. However, in light of this new information, it is clear that the mortality rate is nowhere near the estimation that was given to Congress on March 11, 2020. There it was stated that Covid-19 would be around ten times more deadly than the flu. (see my 2nd link below)

Although it was unfortunate that the migrant workers of Singapore had to endure such appalling conditions amid a global pandemic, the data from the incident is as precise as it gets and shouldn’t be ignored. Close to half of the over 320,000 workers locked away in crowded and unsanitary facilities were exposed to Covid-19 but endured only 2 fatalities. With an infection fatality rate near zero, perhaps the greatest danger wasn’t Covid-19 but the lockdown they had to endure.
https://www.aier.org/article/singapores-covid-experience-and-overestimated-death-rates/

Another interesting article is Twelve Times the Lockdowners Were Wrong

No 1 is Anthony Fauci says lockdowns are not possible in the United States (January 24)

No 3 Anthony Fauci’s decimal error in estimating Covid’s fatality rates (March 11) (see Singapore comment above)
Fauci testified before Congress in early March where he was asked to estimate the severity of the disease in comparison to influenza. His testimony that Covid was “10 times more lethal than the seasonal flu” stoked widespread alarm and provided a major impetus for the decision to go into lockdown.

The problem, as Ronald Brown documented in an epidemiology journal article, is that Fauci based his estimates on a conflation of the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) and Case Fatality Rate (CFR) for influenza, leading him to exaggerate the comparative danger of Covid by an order of magnitude. Fauci’s error – which he further compounded in a late February article for the New England Journal of Medicine – helped to convince Congress of the need for drastic lockdown measures, while also spreading panic in the media and general public. As of this writing Fauci has not acknowledged the magnitude of his error, nor has the journal corrected his article.

No 5 is Neil Ferguson predicts a “best case” US scenario of 1.1 million deaths (March 20)
The name Neil Ferguson, the lead modeler and chief spokesman for Imperial College London’s pandemic response team, has become synonymous with lockdown alarmism for good reason. Ferguson has a long track record of making grossly exaggerated predictions of catastrophic death tolls for almost every single disease that comes along, and urging aggressive policy responses to the same including lockdowns.
Covid was no different, and Ferguson assumed center stage when he released a highly influential model of the virus’s death forecasts for the US and UK. Ferguson appeared with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson on March 16 to announce the shift toward lockdowns (with no small irony, he was coming down with Covid himself at the time and may have been the patient zero of a super-spreader event that ran through Downing Street and infected Johnson himself).
Across the Atlantic, Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx cited Ferguson’s model as a direct justification for locking down the US. There was a problem though: Ferguson had a bad habit of dramatically hyping his own predictions to political leaders and the press. The Imperial College paper modeled a broad range of scenarios including death tolls that ranged from tens of thousands to over 2 million, but Ferguson’s public statements only stressed the latter – even though the paper itself conceded that such an extreme “worst case” scenario was highly unrealistic. A telling example came on March 20th when the New York Times’s Nicholas Kristof contacted the Imperial College modeler to ask about the most likely scenario for the United States. As Kristof related to his readers, “I asked Ferguson for his best case. “About 1.1 million deaths,” he said.”

https://www.aier.org/article/twelve-times-the-lockdowners-were-wrong/

For a more detailed article on Fauci’s evidence to Congress and the decimal point issue see link below. Summary here :
A statistic that bears repeating, Covid – based on infections vs deaths – has close to a 99.9% survival rate. Imagine how the world would have been different had Fauci told that to the Congress on that fateful day of March 11. Or what if Fauci had revealed that the average age of death from Covid would almost equal the average lifespan in the US and exceed it in most parts of the world? People present might have wondered why they were holding hearings at all.
There is a good John Hopkins / Our World Data graph showing cases v deaths for the world and countries in the article.
https://www.aier.org/article/the-decimal-point-that-blew-up-the-world/

My note : Remember most Covid death stats include dying with not of Covid. Contrast with Singapore article above where there was pretty much no way to avoid the virus and how few actually died.

Food for thought.

 

[marco55]

I see now that the vaccines are being released all of a sudden all these different strains are starting to spread the virus.I understand that viruses mutate but at the same time the vaccines are released? Really?:rolleyes2:
Mark

 

[OzDigger]

Since TomNT and OzD been posting links thought I would put up a few of my own. All from the American Institute for Economic Research.

Singapore’s Accidental Covid Experiment: Reaching Herd Immunity Safely
It is a long article but I have cut and paste some of the more interesting paras. This was toughest of lockdowns in crowded environment.

On December 14, 2020 Singapore’s Ministry of Health communicated a summary of the steps it took to contain a raging Covid-19 breakout in its migrant worker living facilities. The report itself claimed that the city-state had over 320,000 migrant workers living in cramped dormitories and around 47% or a little over 152,000 contracted Covid-19.

What has happened in Singapore is certainly a human rights violation but it has also acted as an unintentional controlled experiment that has yielded interesting information about Covid-19. There are few if any places in the world that such a controlled and thorough natural experiment occurred. The virus was let to spread rapidly through a population of low socioeconomic status, in universal as well as unsanitary living conditions, and what can be assumed to be working age. The result was only two deaths and 25 ICU admissions out of an infected population of over 152,000. Such an occurrence runs entirely counter to the prevailing narrative surrounding Covid-19.

The fatality rate for Covid-19 above the age of 70 should be seen as a controversial number, as the average human life expectancy is around 70 years old and reclassification of deaths due to comorbidities may be a strong confounding variable. The infection fatality rate was largely overestimated at the onset of the pandemic (as high as 1.6%) and more accurate estimations of that rate are now widely accepted, placing it at a much lower rate. For reference, the mortality rate for the seasonal flu put out by the WHO is under 0.1%. Obviously results can vary based on factors such as testing, access to healthcare, and so on. However, in light of this new information, it is clear that the mortality rate is nowhere near the estimation that was given to Congress on March 11, 2020. There it was stated that Covid-19 would be around ten times more deadly than the flu. (see my 2nd link below)

Although it was unfortunate that the migrant workers of Singapore had to endure such appalling conditions amid a global pandemic, the data from the incident is as precise as it gets and shouldn’t be ignored. Close to half of the over 320,000 workers locked away in crowded and unsanitary facilities were exposed to Covid-19 but endured only 2 fatalities. With an infection fatality rate near zero, perhaps the greatest danger wasn’t Covid-19 but the lockdown they had to endure.
https://www.aier.org/article/singapores-covid-experience-and-overestimated-death-rates/

Another interesting article is Twelve Times the Lockdowners Were Wrong

No 1 is Anthony Fauci says lockdowns are not possible in the United States (January 24)

No 3 Anthony Fauci’s decimal error in estimating Covid’s fatality rates (March 11) (see Singapore comment above)
Fauci testified before Congress in early March where he was asked to estimate the severity of the disease in comparison to influenza. His testimony that Covid was “10 times more lethal than the seasonal flu” stoked widespread alarm and provided a major impetus for the decision to go into lockdown.

The problem, as Ronald Brown documented in an epidemiology journal article, is that Fauci based his estimates on a conflation of the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) and Case Fatality Rate (CFR) for influenza, leading him to exaggerate the comparative danger of Covid by an order of magnitude. Fauci’s error – which he further compounded in a late February article for the New England Journal of Medicine – helped to convince Congress of the need for drastic lockdown measures, while also spreading panic in the media and general public. As of this writing Fauci has not acknowledged the magnitude of his error, nor has the journal corrected his article.

No 5 is Neil Ferguson predicts a “best case” US scenario of 1.1 million deaths (March 20)
The name Neil Ferguson, the lead modeler and chief spokesman for Imperial College London’s pandemic response team, has become synonymous with lockdown alarmism for good reason. Ferguson has a long track record of making grossly exaggerated predictions of catastrophic death tolls for almost every single disease that comes along, and urging aggressive policy responses to the same including lockdowns.
Covid was no different, and Ferguson assumed center stage when he released a highly influential model of the virus’s death forecasts for the US and UK. Ferguson appeared with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson on March 16 to announce the shift toward lockdowns (with no small irony, he was coming down with Covid himself at the time and may have been the patient zero of a super-spreader event that ran through Downing Street and infected Johnson himself).
Across the Atlantic, Anthony Fauci and Deborah Birx cited Ferguson’s model as a direct justification for locking down the US. There was a problem though: Ferguson had a bad habit of dramatically hyping his own predictions to political leaders and the press. The Imperial College paper modeled a broad range of scenarios including death tolls that ranged from tens of thousands to over 2 million, but Ferguson’s public statements only stressed the latter – even though the paper itself conceded that such an extreme “worst case” scenario was highly unrealistic. A telling example came on March 20th when the New York Times’s Nicholas Kristof contacted the Imperial College modeler to ask about the most likely scenario for the United States. As Kristof related to his readers, “I asked Ferguson for his best case. “About 1.1 million deaths,” he said.”

https://www.aier.org/article/twelve-times-the-lockdowners-were-wrong/

For a more detailed article on Fauci’s evidence to Congress and the decimal point issue see link below. Summary here :
A statistic that bears repeating, Covid – based on infections vs deaths – has close to a 99.9% survival rate. Imagine how the world would have been different had Fauci told that to the Congress on that fateful day of March 11. Or what if Fauci had revealed that the average age of death from Covid would almost equal the average lifespan in the US and exceed it in most parts of the world? People present might have wondered why they were holding hearings at all.
There is a good John Hopkins / Our World Data graph showing cases v deaths for the world and countries in the article.
https://www.aier.org/article/the-decimal-point-that-blew-up-the-world/

My note : Remember most Covid death stats include dying with not of Covid. Contrast with Singapore article above where there was pretty much no way to avoid the virus and how few actually died.

Food for thought.

The American Institute For Economic Research is partly financed by the Koch Brothers and is responsible for The Great Barrington Declaration. Obviously have their own bias and their prime aim is to maximise profits and don't care how many people die.

 

[OzDigger]

I see now that the vaccines are being released all of a sudden all these different strains are starting to spread the virus.I understand that viruses mutate but at the same time the vaccines are released? Really?:rolleyes2:
Mark

Yep Mark, it's called a coincidence.

Sometimes Coincidence appears to be a Correlation, but does not always mean Causation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

 

[marco55]

Yep Mark, it's called a coincidence.

Sometimes Coincidence appears to be a Correlation, but does not always mean Causation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

And sometimes it's not.
Mark

 

[Desertkiwi]

Why would I take notice of someone that has not done any scientific research or has an facts to support his claims. I prefer to take notice of literally thousands of people that actually work or carry out research in that science.

The man has dedicated his life to science and climatology and can back his claims with pages of references using the exact same statistics the like's of the IPCC and media choose to distort and manipulate for political purposes.

He's also a passionate environmentalist, chaired countless commissions about climate and been repeatedly called upon as a climate expert in a raft of inquiries, so hardly some back yard bush scientist whose never conducted any scientific research.

Judging by your post I'm picking all you've done is Googled the incredibly inaccurate Wikipedia to form and post your opinions.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Really...is it as sad as those people that won't change their minds no matter how many facts are provided to the contrary?

In any case, the links weren't for you and a few others here, I posted them for forum members that may be having problems dealing with these issues. Maybe you haven't noticed that very few people now comment on what you and the usual suspects post. They have become so angry they no longer read them or respond.

There is no such thing as free speech or free actions if they have negative impacts on others. That's why we have laws and law enforcement, that is worth remembering.

I don't know where to begin with this post nor am I going to try, other than shake my head in disbelief.

 

[OzDigger]

The man has dedicated his life to science and climatology and can back his claims with pages of references using the exact same statistics the like's of the IPCC and media choose to distort and manipulate for political purposes.

He's also a passionate environmentalist, chaired countless commissions about climate and been repeatedly called upon as a climate expert in a raft of inquiries, so hardly some back yard bush scientist whose never conducted any scientific research.

Judging by your post I'm picking all you've done is Googled the incredibly inaccurate Wikipedia to form and post your opinions.

Hmm...who will I believe? The random pseudo-science of Conspiracy Theorists or Facts and Statistics tested and supported by Thousands of main stream Scientists. Easy choice for me, and most other people but they'll always be Flat-Earther types that choose the other team to support.

And of course they think They are Right and will continue their Crusade because they think there's a Government Plot to control us, and Covid19 is just the latest PROOF of that {eek3}

 

[OzDigger]

I don't know where to begin with this post nor am I going to try, other than shake my head in disbelief.

Whatever.

 

[tdubel]

Really...is it as sad as those people that won't change their minds no matter how many facts are provided to the contrary?

In any case, the links weren't for you and a few others here, I posted them for forum members that may be having problems dealing with these issues. Maybe you haven't noticed that very few people now comment on what you and the usual suspects post. They have become so angry they no longer read them or respond.

There is no such thing as free speech or free actions if they have negative impacts on others. That's why we have laws and law enforcement, that is worth remembering.

I am trying to understand what you are talking about here? Freedom of speech is just that, we do have that in the USA as long as its not hate speech for the most part or yelling Fire in a crowded theater. Opinions are free speech and they are what they are, everyone has one. Free speech may have a negative impact on someone else dependent upon how they respond ( I try to ignore obvious idiotic free speech like the KKK in America, they are idiots and therefore are ignored, however I am positive they offend and negatively impact). That said, my own opinion may cause disagreement to someone to a negative effect, it is hardly criminal. For example, I have a very strong opinion on our economy, my wife's Aunt has a very different one, she believes in FSU (Free ****te university), I do not , yet when we have a debate, I clearly walk away thinking she is a full blown idiot, she walks away distressed, again, hardly criminal.

My opinion is people have to make up their own minds, live with their decisions, sleep soundly at night, etc. It is not my place to tell them how to think, act, etc. I have found as I have said - you make your own way in life, that is your strength. I have a hard time understanding weakness and not being able to pull the boot straps up tight and carry on. For every tragedy, their are multiple success stories that never get reported on, just remember that.

Also, on this board everyone is entitled to post their viewpoints and no matter how much I disagree, you have to respect someone for having an opinion and feeling confident enough to discuss it. There are no usual suspects and this is not mob rule. I am certain I have opinions and viewpoints that not everyone shares, so be it, *** does it really matter? I still get up everyday and buy toy soldiers.

Everyone is different, comes from different backgrounds and viewpoints. Not everyone is correct all the time, nor are they wrong. As I said before, there is equilibrium in all matters and most of the time, nobody is right nor are they wrong, the "right" answer ends up somewhere in between those two points.

TD

 

[marco55]

Hmm...who will I believe? The random pseudo-science of Conspiracy Theorists or Facts and Statistics tested and supported by Thousands of main stream Scientists. Easy choice for me, and most other people but they'll always be Flat-Earther types that choose the other team to support.

And of course they think They are Right and will continue their Crusade because they think there's a Government Plot to control us, and Covid19 is just the latest PROOF of that {eek3}

And you don't think that? I don't know about Australia but I see New York and California trying to destroy the small businesses by following the "Science" and they are total disasters. If they are trying to turn the people into cowering sheep they are very much mistaken. They should be tried for treason for violating our constitutional rights.
Mark

 

[OzDigger]

I am trying to understand what you are talking about here? Freedom of speech is just that, we do have that in the USA as long as its not hate speech for the most part or yelling Fire in a crowded theater. Opinions are free speech and they are what they are, everyone has one. Free speech may have a negative impact on someone else dependent upon how they respond ( I try to ignore obvious idiotic free speech like the KKK in America, they are idiots and therefore are ignored, however I am positive they offend and negatively impact). That said, my own opinion may cause disagreement to someone to a negative effect, it is hardly criminal. For example, I have a very strong opinion on our economy, my wife's Aunt has a very different one, she believes in FSU (Free ****te university), I do not , yet when we have a debate, I clearly walk away thinking she is a full blown idiot, she walks away distressed, again, hardly criminal.

My opinion is people have to make up their own minds, live with their decisions, sleep soundly at night, etc. It is not my place to tell them how to think, act, etc. I have found as I have said - you make your own way in life, that is your strength. I have a hard time understanding weakness and not being able to pull the boot straps up tight and carry on. For every tragedy, their are multiple success stories that never get reported on, just remember that.

Also, on this board everyone is entitled to post their viewpoints and no matter how much I disagree, you have to respect someone for having an opinion and feeling confident enough to discuss it. There are no usual suspects and this is not mob rule. I am certain I have opinions and viewpoints that not everyone shares, so be it, *** does it really matter? I still get up everyday and buy toy soldiers.

Everyone is different, comes from different backgrounds and viewpoints. Not everyone is correct all the time, nor are they wrong. As I said before, there is equilibrium in all matters and most of the time, nobody is right nor are they wrong, the "right" answer ends up somewhere in between those two points.

TD

Freedom of Speech varies greatly depending upon individual Countries and States etc. How much freedom of 'speech' do we actually have? In practical terms it is much less than you believe. For example the Forum owners can delete any Thread or Post/Words they want. Hint, this is the Third thread on Covid19.

Of course you can have discussions with people in most countries with relative freedom, be it in Person or on the Internet such as Forums, Facebook or wherever. However keep in mind that many Governments including US, Australia and New Zealand may have measures in place allowing them to photograph and track mail, listen to private conversations or track internet conversations. Much depends on the topic(s) of course, some are more vital to personal and national security than others.

Even personal discussions amongst work colleges can have serious repercussions. I have worked with a number of guys that have been demoted or sacked at work for saying the wrong thing in person or posted something on Facebook that was reported to the Management. As a consequence of that, late last year I decided to delete every Work related Friend from my Facebook account as I didn't want to risk being caught up in similar consequences.

BTW I also mentioned Actions as well as Speech. In some States in Australia you can be fined up to $50,000 or imprisonment for 12 months for escaping from Covid19 isolation. And I understand someone important in the US was sacked for not wearing a mask. The list goes on, is this unfair or a violation of rights or whatever. That doesn't really matter if laws support the penalties when people do the wrong thing.

 

[OzDigger]

And you don't think that? I don't know about Australia but I see New York and California trying to destroy the small businesses by following the "Science" and they are total disasters. If they are trying to turn the people into cowering sheep they are very much mistaken. They should be tried for treason for violating our constitutional rights.
Mark

No Mark, I'm not on a Crusade about Covid19.

Some governments have over reacted, some haven't done enough. If you or any other members have issues with the handling of the Pandemic I suggest you take it up with a politician. Don't try and blame Science, usually you are suffering because of Economic factors that are a consequence of Political actions

Science is NOT to blame. Poor political decisions cause or exacerbate any problems, sometimes politicians blame 'Science', but that will eventually backfire on them.

The various Sciences are the study of Nature. Nature has no consideration for Humans, it does what it does.

Science is Never fixed because Nature is not easy to understand. We are constantly learning new things or adjusting earlier Scientific 'facts' and theories be they related to Physics, Astronomy, or Microbiology including Viruses of course.

 

[marco55]

No Matt I don't blame science. As you say nature will do as nature does. I'm talking about the politicians using it to justify their actions. Left,right it doesn't matter they should be working together in unison to solve these problems. Over here they are putting party over country.
Mark

 

[TomNT]

Hi all

Here’s some more very good video and article links on the Covid-19 issue.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/fauci-fda-pfizer-moderna-covid-vaccines/

https://www.citizenfreepress.com/br...ls-palsy-from-covid-vaccine-facial-paralysis/

This video is very alarming

https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/the-new-strain-of-covid-propaganda

https://nationalfile.com/what-new-s...finds-asymptomatic-covid-spread-never-existed

P.S. I just noticed that many links in my original post a while back do not work (first post in this thread). This is unfortunate as they reveal very good info on the Covid-19 issue. The links do work when I have opened them on my phone and opening on my laptop using windows and google. Friends that have received the links from me via text and FB Messenger have been able to open on their phones without any issues. It could be some sort of censorship that is causing the issue but it also could be something to do with Treefrog’s IT. I'm not blaming TF as they provide an excellent platform for people to post content, air their views and have it moderated so things don't get out of hand. I will try and check all links from now on to confirm that they will work on here.

Tom

 

[OzDigger]

No Matt I don't blame science. As you say nature will do as nature does. I'm talking about the politicians using it to justify their actions. Left,right it doesn't matter they should be working together in unison to solve these problems. Over here they are putting party over country.
Mark

Mark I totally agree, Science should not be used by Politicians, or for Political Agendas, and neither should people use Pseudo Science for their Political agendas.

You have nailed it in saying they are putting party over country, and it's not only in the US. When I was a kid most people were pretty well fixed on which party they were going to vote for, for life. These days I find there is a very fine line between the different political parties. They all seem to be in politics to boast their ego and/or make more money for themselves. Initially they say they will change this, do that and we'll all be better off. After a few months in power they just seem to tell the same lies as the previous leader and enjoy the gravy train. Maybe it's been like that for decades, and we just haven't noticed it :wink2: