Do you you believe? First legion holds a challenge for King and Country? (1 Viewer)

[mikemiller1955]

Not for me...^&grin

 

[ollie_drab]

So, does that mean you agree or, disagree with the question???
Mitch

Hello Mitch,
To answer your question, I must digress from the former. Still, I remain neutral, to sustain any further critical thinking on the relevance of the issue, and the bottom line; that competition is good for this market, whether or not I agree that one toy manufacturer's product may or may not pose a challenge, or a financial threat, to another.

 

[nysoldiers]

I read this forum for entertainment, education and news on our hobby. Polls, critiques, discussions ^and even a few "passionate" debates are fine with me. I have very little ego when it comes to a
Hobby!

K&C used to get a bigger portion of my spend but other makers got my attention and now I spread {my budget around.
I purchased some FL Napoleonics and was impressed with the quality. Pricing, however, dissuaded me from further buying. I did buy a few Crusaders to mix with my K&C collection.
JJD is my leading supplier right now. I do plan to buy FL'S Renaissance series.
With so many great suppliers the competition helps to create better products. Hopefully it will keep prices more reasonable.

 

[Mitch]

Right!!!!
Mitch

Hello Mitch,
To answer your question, I must digress from the former. Still, I remain neutral, to sustain any further critical thinking on the relevance of the issue, and the bottom line; that competition is good for this market, whether or not I agree that one toy manufacturer's product may or may not represent a challenge, or a financial threat, to another.

 

[Rutledge]

Of course there is competition between the two companies. Now, as far as FL "challenging" KC? Presumably for top producer status? Well, that is what is at stake, I believe.

It is clear there is some animosity between the two brands' most ardent supporters. The reason for this, in my view, is that FL, from day one, has positioned itself as a direct challenger to the KC dynasty. This is true regardless of which brand you may or may not prefer, or continue to buy.

Naturally this "direct assault" caused friction, especially among those who had what they viewed as a significant investment in KC, or were tied in business-wise, as did some dealers (TF was notebably accommodating, allowing FL to market its products on their forum)

FL uses a slightly different scale and style from KC, and most say the two brands are not truly compatible. Without actually declaring it, FL clearly belived it had "new and better" way of producing toy soldiers relative to KC. Most of the other brands, like Figarti and CS or Buld a rama, seemed happy complementing and filling in niches, basically, within the context of the toy soldier marketplace, as it was established and defined by KC. FL came out of the chutes challenging this heretofore dominance of KC, to which the other companies had basically acquisced, by suggesting it had not a complementary product, per se, but rather a superior product from a "price/value" perspective. To some this was and is heresay, while to others it has become gospel. To each their own is probably the best course.

FL's aggressive positioning vis-a-vis KC was an absolutely bold strategy. It, along with the direct sold model, turned the toy soldier world topsy turvy at first. The approach was unquestionably very risky for an entirely new firm, and brand. But KC is still top dog. Neverthelss, FL has certainly carved out a good sized space. The TF folks likely would argue that they have also broadened the space. I dont have numbers that support or deny this, so no comment.

Personally, I suspect the new dealer sold approach is the result of FL's recongnition that they have achieved all they can with the direct approach, and need dealer help raising their popularity and market share to levels they desire. Whether it works or not is TBD. Regardless of the outcome, collectors will benefit. Rejoice!

 

[Rob]

Five pages in, no threats of murder, no threats of legal action, no one throwing things out of their pram......guys, are we growing up at last?^&grin:wink2:

Rob

 

[jbonzo1]

Well then, Rob, I think warm beer is the worst! How's that?^&grin
As far as I'm concerned, the more quality choices, the better.

 

[Rob]

Well then, Rob, I think warm beer is the worst! How's that?^&grin
As far as I'm concerned, the more quality choices, the better.

Try again mate, I never touch the stuff, Whisky,Vodka or Gin for me^&grin:wink2:

Yep, more choice the better{bravo}}

Rob

 

[damian]

Of course there is competition between the two companies. Now, as far as FL "challenging" KC? Presumably for top producer status? Well, that is what is at stake, I believe.

It is clear there is some animosity between the two brands' most ardent supporters. The reason for this, in my view, is that FL, from day one, has positioned itself as a direct challenger to the KC dynasty. This is true regardless of which brand you may or may not prefer, or continue to buy.

Naturally this "direct assault" caused friction, especially among those who had what they viewed as a significant investment in KC, or were tied in business-wise, as did some dealers (TF was notebably accommodating, allowing FL to market its products on their forum)

FL uses a slightly different scale and style from KC, and most say the two brands are not truly compatible. Without actually declaring it, FL clearly belived it had "new and better" way of producing toy soldiers relative to KC. Most of the other brands, like Figarti and CS or Buld a rama, seemed happy complementing and filling in niches, basically, within the context of the toy soldier marketplace, as it was established and defined by KC. FL came out of the chutes challenging this heretofore dominance of KC, to which the other companies had basically acquisced, by suggesting it had not a complementary product, per se, but rather a superior product from a "price/value" perspective. To some this was and is heresay, while to others it has become gospel. To each their own is probably the best course.

FL's aggressive positioning vis-a-vis KC was an absolutely bold strategy. It, along with the direct sold model, turned the toy soldier world topsy turvy at first. The approach was unquestionably very risky for an entirely new firm, and brand. But KC is still top dog. Neverthelss, FL has certainly carved out a good sized space. The TF folks likely would argue that they have also broadened the space. I dont have numbers that support or deny this, so no comment.

Personally, I suspect the new dealer sold approach is the result of FL's recongnition that they have achieved all they can with the direct approach, and need dealer help raising their popularity and market share to levels they desire. Whether it works or not is TBD. Regardless of the outcome, collectors will benefit. Rejoice!

I actually find myself in agreement with almost all of the above post which must be somewhat of a first for me.

 

[Alex]

Of course FL is challenging KC for quality of the products released.
BUT KC will continue to be number one because of the price difference and only because of that and their extensive dealer network.

Now as much as I like FL figures, I don't want FL to expand at the expense of a reduction in the quality of their figures. And I don't care that FL is not going to be the top seller of toy soldiers in 2020 neither do I buy fords or chevys

Cheers

Alex

 

[Rutledge]

Of course FL is challenging KC for quality of the products released.
BUT KC will continue to be number one because of the price difference and only because of that and their extensive dealer network.

Now as much as I like FL figures, I don't want FL to expand at the expense of a reduction in the quality of their figures. And I don't care that FL is not going to be the top seller of toy soldiers in 2020 neither do I buy fords or chevys

Cheers

Alex

This is the kind of post that brings rancor into the mix. Fortunately, snarky comments, snide comparisons and subtle digs (that are actually not subtle at all) reflect more on the character of the poster than the brand in question.

Re Ford and Chevy. Most Americans do their best to avoid ever crossing into Canada. Enjoy the coming frost!

 

[Phantom Warrior]

This is the kind of post that brings rancor into the mix. Fortunately, snarky comments, snide comparisons and subtle digs (that are actually not subtle at all) reflect more on the character of the poster than the brand in question.

Re Ford and Chevy. Most Americans do their best to avoid ever crossing into Canada. Enjoy the coming frost!

Way to tar all Canadians with the same brush. Besides, Alex isn't from Canada - he's from Quebec. {eek3}{sm4}{sm4}

Terry

 

[Alex]

Actually my comment was pretty much ironic.


My 1st car was a ford...
My current car is british
My next car, a Porsche, is going to be made in Germany

I have nothing against ford or chevys it's just that Porsche is in another league.

As for the snow and the frost, I have learned to enjoy it even though I was born in Europe

My parents are of european and african origin

I'm the typical canadian... a real melting pot of genes.

And please don't take this thread too seriously. I don't !

Alex

 

[larso]

I don't collect FL - I love what they produce but it's just too expensive. I don't think it's a matter of them challenging K & C but more a case of them trying to lure away the more affluent collectors of other companies. K & C have in recent years raised the bar on how toy soldiers are made. Collectors have been encouraged to expect more, so others have had to follow suit and FL are lifting the bar further again with their incredible detail. The fact that they also put out such extensive lines up front is very bold but also very clever. FL may well hurt K & C's bottom line but I think K & C they will continue to do very well due to their passion for the hobby.

 

[Partner]

This is the kind of post that brings rancor into the mix. Fortunately, snarky comments, snide comparisons and subtle digs (that are actually not subtle at all) reflect more on the character of the poster than the brand in question.

Re Ford and Chevy. Most Americans do their best to avoid ever crossing into Canada. Enjoy the coming frost!

The Thrashers crossed into Canada

 

[Rutledge]

The Thrashers crossed into Canada

So did the Flames. Good riddance to both. Football is king here (American style)

 

[Rutledge]

Actually my comment was pretty much ironic.


My 1st car was a ford...
My current car is british
My next car, a Porsche, is going to be made in Germany

I have nothing against ford or chevys it's just that Porsche is in another league.

As for the snow and the frost, I have learned to enjoy it even though I was born in Europe

My parents are of european and african origin

I'm the typical canadian... a real melting pot of genes.

And please don't take this thread too seriously. I don't !

Alex

No one said anything about your genes. As far as your car, I've driven a German brand for the lastten plus years. No one cares. But as an American I take some offense when somebody outside the US puts down our classic brands as inferior.

It's easy to keep things light. Speak well of your favored brands without diminishing others. Surely you can do that.

 

[Gebhard]

First legion vrs king and county,does first legion hold a challenge for K&C


Yes i do believe there is compition between the companys

Of course there is competition between the companies they both sell Toy Soldiers ^&confuse

No i thin K and C can handle any competion with great ease
Not sure what to make of this one ^&confuse do I think K&C will weather the storm..... of course they will K&C has a very loyal following who buy their products for a plethora or reasons . K&C , Figarti , CS , Britians , Contee, John Jenkins , Thomas Gunn , First Legion , Aeroart.. ect ...ect .... pick your poison gentlemen and enjoy it , I know I do
There are figures a plenty for every taste and budget {bravo}}. Regards Gebhard

 

[wayne556517]

First legion vrs king and county,does first legion hold a challenge for K&C


Yes i do believe there is compition between the companys

Of course there is competition between the companies they both sell Toy Soldiers ^&confuse

No i thin K and C can handle any competion with great ease
Not sure what to make of this one ^&confuse do I think K&C will weather the storm..... of course they will K&C has a very loyal following who buy their products for a plethora or reasons . K&C , Figarti , CS , Britians , Contee, John Jenkins , Thomas Gunn , First Legion , Aeroart.. ect ...ect .... pick your poison gentlemen and enjoy it , I know I do
There are figures a plenty for every taste and budget {bravo}}. Regards Gebhard

But on thing is missing..........................MONEY..................

 

[Rob]

Five pages in, no threats of murder, no threats of legal action, no one throwing things out of their pram......guys, are we growing up at last?^&grin:wink2:

Rob

Did I speak too soon!:wink2:

I'd like to pick up on something Mr Gebs said ' Enjoy your poison gentlemen, I know I do ' . Well said indeed. When I buy something for my collection that I've really been looking forward to getting I don't think I ever wonder about competition in the TS market, I just enjoy what I like, day one stuff really isn't it. {sm4}

Rob