K&C Retroactive Price Increases (2 Viewers)

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Well...I had hoped that during this particularly difficult economic time (for both collectors and manufacturers) that the manufacturers would do everything they could to keep prices down and maintain their base of loyal collectors, as I for one don't see huge expansion in the collector base. Perhaps the manufacturers do. I think spreading some goodwill amongst the collectors by keeping retail prices down would in the long run actually foster growth and maintain many long-term loyal collectors. A retroactive price increase for stock currently sitting on shelves will, of course, have precisely the opposite effect, and I cannot imagine the justification. It sounds as if many have finally thrown their hands up in the face of ever-increasing costs to the consumer...and of course, this will not be the last increase. I, for one, have collected many multiples (sometimes as many as 60) of K&C. It seems those days are over. It always comes down to a matter of value. Over the years K&C has impressed me with their quality and creativity. I waited most of the year to see what they would come up with in the Napoleonics range, and frankly was a bit disappointed. The Gordons suddenly appeared...with a substantial price increase, but when I looked at the poses found that most resembled the Blackwatch pretty closely. With all the competition (particularly with this regiment) I expected a bit more creativity. The combination of the two (price increase) had me shaking my head and reconsidering what "value" in this collectors' market means. While I still appreciate K&C's contributions to TS collecting, and I will no doubt continue to collect them on a much smaller scale, I will be giving more serious attention to where the best value lies for me and where I will focus my collecting dollars.

Respectfully,

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

All the more reason to move to "plastics"... we are definitely moving toward collector exclusivity for "metal"... Glad I was able to pick-up most of my "metal" collection in the last 10 years... I will have to make even more selective choices in the future. Definitely, not going to start any new ranges in "metal"...

 

[Rob]

Right I'd better get those BR1 figures I need then! No one likes price rises of course , but it will just make me focus a little more on my favourite ranges . I don't think I would give up metal and switch to plastics, it would feel like a step backwards somehow.

Rob

 

[vandilay]

This is a tough one as I have always liked the fact K and C held their prices after a release, I have no problem paying higher prices for newly released improved vehicles and figures .

I feel recently with very ltd numbers of some figures and vehicles being released collectors are Forced to make snap decisions [as a general rule I dont have a problem with this as choice is good]

But now we are faced with jumping on past sets or having to pay more in a couple of months , It starting to put me of the hobby to some degree.

 

[Mitch]

I am commenting on these quotes from FL collectors and cheering up K&C.

May I ask what figures that pricing refers to? Here of course, we do not see prices in £ but given the rate of exchange I just saw, those prices don't match up with what is posted on the FL site in $ converted to £?

For example (rounded), the Napoleonic Scots, due to their extra painting are $55 / £33.3 and their other new Napoleonics are $50 / £31.2 (Re-issued French $40 / £33.3) and the Crusader figures range from $50 / £31.2 to $55 / £25. Of course none of this includes VAT or Taxes.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Ohh this is a great Xmas present.

Guys you can debate this to the cows come home and try and put a positive spin on it all you like.......but simply put, this is BAD news!!

This will have a huge effect on my future purchases......sorry K&C, I love your product, but heck this news has blown me out of the water.

I'm really disappointed, sadly I think my days of collecting K&C may be drawing to an end.......

 

[Tony Neville]

This is a great question.....anyone know the answer? I'm guessing there are times when a figure or set is made all in one run, making these retroactive price increases illogical. Then again, there are probably times when a good selling figure or set is produced at various points in time, making them subject to production costs incurred at that specific point in time.

In any case, it seems to me that K & C's pricing has been rising steadily all along (anyone notice that some of the forthcoming BBG single figures, as nice as they are, are $35.00 each?). Now I'm certain there are a myriad of arguments and reasons that can support these price hikes from the manufacturer's standpoint-we've heard all of these points before. But the bottom line for me remains, and that is any further acceleration in pricing is certainly not welcome, and frankly, quite disappointing, especially given these uncertain economic times.

Joe

To try and help answer this one.

When K&C UK develop the Crimea range there is a minimum first order and then a rolling order for top ups.

K&C would work on a similar way with the factory they start a figure with 'x' number of figures and as and when the demand is they will get a lower number made, on a riolling bases. So an old figure like LAH46 which is one that is going to be hit will be made now using the new more costly materials etc but still selling at the origional RRP. hence the need to increase it as K&C have been taking the hit on this figure and the other 350+ for a while.

DD55 is a very good example. We sell loads of these (just the other day we sent 30 to a trade UK customer) but these we had to wait on as they were coming through the factory. The RRP was the same as it was in 2005!! but cost more to make.

We are similar to Treefrog we hold between 5 - 10 of everything on the shelf but these change and move all the time. We had 12 BBA10's the other day and for some reason these were the set of choice last week and now we have none! So by Jan 1st 2011 most of the 350+ items will be bought in at the new price!!

the issue will be will ALL the K&C dealers increase as of the same time??

As per the other thread those dealers who dont work their business and move the stock through !!

Tony

K&C UK

 

[Tony Neville]

Oh and yeah UK VAT goes up in Jan as well so add that on. GREEEEATTTT

works out roughly to be 2.1ish % on top thank you HM tax and revenue!

In the UK we are looking at Jan 4th as an increase on items and VAT. (first working day)

Just writing up the UK newsletter now..............oh joy!

Tony
K&C UK

 

[Vezzolf]

Dealers who bought those sets at let say 40 to 60% off MSRP are going to triple their investments. I respect their opinion a lot but it's the customer
who will have to swallow that 'new' increase ...

Alex

No we don't have to swallow it......."REFUSE to purchase these items"....don't get sucked into panic buying with this ploy......Let them raise prices as much as they want.....Let the stuff sit on the shelves...Time to take a stand

 

[jazzeum]

It might also be asked "why retroactive?" When a dealer has an item on his shelf, you can't tell the difference between one made pre 2009 or post 2010. They all look the same. To keep track of the difference manufacturing dates would be a logistical nightmare. Toy soldiers are not like pharmaceuticals, for instance, where through bar coding and radar technology, you can tell which came in first so they can be sold first (FIFO). There is no expiry dating on a toy soldier.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

No we don't have to swallow it......."REFUSE to purchase these items"....don't get sucked into panic buying with this ploy......Let them raise prices as much as they want.....Let the stuff sit on the shelves...Time to take a stand

Give it a rest. It's not the end of the world. No one needs toy soldiers to survive. And the ones we already have are still as attractive as they were a few days ago.

And I can decide for myself what to purchase or not purchase and when to do so. I don't need instructions on what to do, nor do most collectors. The market will speak over the next several months but I doubt there will be much of an actual reaction. But we will never know as we don't see the sales figures anyway. About the only thing we would notice is an increase in retirements if sales of the older items which had price increases slow dramatically.

The announcement could certainly have been handled much better than it has been. And it should have come from K&C, especially as I have been told repeatedly that this Forum is only a very small part of the worldwide TS community.

Terry

 

[Tony Neville]

Give it a rest. It's not the end of the world. No one needs toy soldiers to survive. And the ones we already have are still as attractive as they were a few days ago.

And I can decide for myself what to purchase or not purchase and when to do so. I don't need instructions on what to do, nor do most collectors. The market will speak over the next several months but I doubt there will be much of an actual reaction. But we will never know as we don't see the sales figures anyway. About the only thing we would notice is an increase in retirements if sales of the older items which had price increases slow dramatically.

The announcement could certainly have been handled much better than it has been. And it should have come from K&C, especially as I have been told repeatedly that this Forum is only a very small part of the worldwide TS community.

Terry

clap clap clap bravo bravo!! well said

 

[Rob]

Give it a rest. It's not the end of the world. No one needs toy soldiers to survive. And the ones we already have are still as attractive as they were a few days ago.

And I can decide for myself what to purchase or not purchase and when to do so. I don't need instructions on what to do, nor do most collectors. The market will speak over the next several months but I doubt there will be much of an actual reaction. But we will never know as we don't see the sales figures anyway. About the only thing we would notice is an increase in retirements if sales of the older items which had price increases slow dramatically.

Terry

I agree. No one is being forced to buy the product are they?. Prices are going up across the board and I have to make my own decisions, and its simple really. If I don't buy the product I don't get to continue to enjoy the hobby I get a great deal of pleasure out of. We are all adults here and all know what we want to do, I don't need anyone trying to order me around.

Vezzolf I have to ask this with the greatest respect, I didn't think you purchased a lot of K&C anyway?. Apologies if I'm wrong.

Each to their own of course, but K&C are my No1 producers of TS's and a price rise won't stop me, we also have a VAT rise in January over here, that won't stop me either. The day I get in debt through the Hobby then I'll pack it in, but I make my own decisions where I spend my spare bucks and its with the good folk of K&C UK.

Rob

 

[marco55]

[

Each to their own of course, but K&C are my No1 producers of TS's and a price rise won't stop me, we also have a VAT rise in January over here, that won't stop me either. The day I get in debt through the Hobby then I'll pack it in, but I make my own decisions where I spend my spare bucks and its with the good folk of K&C UK.

Rob[/QUOTE]

You must make a lots of money because it will stop some.It isn't just KC because all the others will follow sooner or later.
Mark

 

[Rob]

[

Each to their own of course, but K&C are my No1 producers of TS's and a price rise won't stop me, we also have a VAT rise in January over here, that won't stop me either. The day I get in debt through the Hobby then I'll pack it in, but I make my own decisions where I spend my spare bucks and its with the good folk of K&C UK.

Rob

You must make a lots of money because it will stop some.It isn't just KC because all the others will follow sooner or later.
Mark[/QUOTE]

No I don't make lots of money, but I choose to collect Toy soldiers with the spare money I have. If they go up in price its my choice to continue.

I'm sure the others will follow suit, thats life I'm afraid.

Rob

 

[Naps...just Naps]

May I ask what figures that pricing refers to? Here of course, we do not see prices in £ but given the rate of exchange I just saw, those prices don't match up with what is posted on the FL site in $ converted to £?

For example (rounded), the Napoleonic Scots, due to their extra painting are $55 / £33.3 and their other new Napoleonics are $50 / £31.2 (Re-issued French $40 / £33.3) and the Crusader figures range from $50 / £31.2 to $55 / £25. Of course none of this includes VAT or Taxes.

Hi
I wish FL soldiers were around £33.00 each I would buy them.
But unfortunately they range from £50.00 ($80.00) to £75.00 ($120.00) for the foot soldiers from a UK dealer (Taking the 92nd as a price example).
We are told that it is due to taxes and import duties.
They are too expensive for me regardless of the reason.

Those prices priced me out of collecting FL and it looks like I'm going to be priced out of collecting K&C soon going by these increases.

However, I believe the timing is wrong and the strategy of increasing prices of already produced stock could backfire and lose K&C some very valuable customers.
Some people have to buy their soldiers one at a time due to financial constraints and take a while to build up their collection.
Those people are now going to be told that if they don't hurry up and buy what they want by the end of the year they will have to pay more even if the item is already in stock.
The little guy who loves his hobby and spends what he can on it is going to bit hit the hardest.
That just seems wrong IMO.

By all means increase the costs to cover your increased manufacturing and shipping costs for new products but the old products which are in stock should stay at the old price.

Regards
Paul

 

[The Military Workshop]

I passed this information out to my customers on 1 NOV when I received it. The full list and new prices are not yet available. I also pointed out certain bargains to my customers at the same time and some have acted on it.

I think a lot of people do not understand that some of the items we are talking about were released 2-5 years ago and some have had more than one production run over those years. Common sense would tell you that the most recent run would cost K&C more than the first (not counting sculpting cost, just manufacture costs).

It had been obvious to me for quite a while that K&C could not continue to do further production runs of older items and still keep the original US$ RRP. I recall discussing this with Andy in mid 2009 with particular reference to the Napoleonic older Black Watch which were US$24 / 25. When ordering from K&C if the item is not in stock the shoping basket will say out of stock and indicate
the date new stock will be available. I did not keep notes but I had noted there have been a few re-runs of the BW over the years. It was plain to me (as it should be to anybody) that the production costs would have gone up since the first run was done and that the profit margin for K&C would be going down as compared to doing new figures. I doubt K&C overheads have remained the same. I actually said to Andy I would rather have the price of the BW go up to US$32 (ie. same as the French foot Dragoons that had just been
released) rather than see them retired. Over the years the Standing and Kneeling Firing BW would have to have been my best selling figures. We had a similar conversation in June this year.

Alex mentioned the US$89 set sitting on the shop shelf for years. Those are the sorts of items I point out to my newer customers as they are the bargains. Any new customer of mine has always been advised to buy the older items first becuase they are cheaper and may retire first. However at the same time I realise that K&C must be losing margin each time they re-run a US$89 item.
If you see a K&C vehicle or figure set for US$89 you are looking at a bargain.

Whilst some are not happy it seems that many have not appreciated the fact that K&C has had many figures that are in the US$19-25 range and has kept to that price over their considerable life span. Another point perhaps not appreciated is the sheer amount of inventory K&C carries across a huge range of eras. I have not counted but current items would be well over 1,000. This would be more than John Jenkins, TG, FL and Figarti combined. Then consider how many of each item they might have in stock compared to those four brands. Also consider many are big box items. The reality is K&C figures are on average available for longer than any other of the main brands (ie. Britains, FL, CS, TG, Figarti and Conte). As anybody can appreciate the first production run would always sell quickest yet K&C does further runs on many of their items to maintain the variety. Collectors for most items have plenty of time to buy an item they like except for the limited ones where quick decisions are needed.

The items we are talking about will be over two years old when the new prices come into effect and many are much older than that. If you had no plans to buy them anyway then this should not be a concern. However it might also be a time to consider some of those items whilst the prices are still good. A recent tip I made to my customers was DD68 Ambulance Jeep with 3 figures. The way I looked at it was the Jeep was free. Guess which item has just sold out at K&C HQ and was one of my recent tips to customers?!. I have just noted a number of other items have sold out quickly already.

K&C have given advance notice of 2 months. It will be interesting to see which ones actually survive and do carry on at a new price.

Just my thoughts.

Regards
Brett

PS Would have posted earlier but had to get an order in !

 

[Mitch]

Can I just say that I don't see panic buying happening. I was confused at the manner in which it was announced as I would have thought all the obfuscation caused and I include myself in that was down in part to the way it was released.

In these circumstances its always better IMO to have the person in charge doing the issuing of information as it gives all the facts in one hit and minimises rumour etc.

I think refusing to buy or boycott is a bit extreme and although this is certainly an option for some I don't think many will consider it as its really just cutting of ones nose to spite your face.
Mitch

 

[graycap]

I'm retired, living just outside London. I'm not exactly on the breadline but the K & C announced prize rise plus the forthcoming VAT rise will obviously impact on my own defence budget! My personal strategy will be:
a) Get anything I really want before the price rise hike comes into force.
b) Limited the ranges I collect. My period is WWII and I have collections from the FOB, Normandy (DD and WSS) and Battle of the Bulge. I will probably now focus on Battle of the Bulge - you have a rough idea when new additions are coming and can plan accordingly.
c) Keep my fingers crossed for the next million pound lottery win!!

 

[Currahee Chris]

I've never heard of raising the prices on older sets.Unless they are still being manufactured they want today's prices for stuff they made a few years ago.If this is correct then it's B.S.
Mark

Couldn't agree more!!