K&C Retroactive Price Increases (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

Couldn't agree more!!

See my prior post regarding inventory control.

 

[Currahee Chris]

this is a joke!!!

I am actually seriously considering stopping collecting for a few years, have been for a while, maybe just sticking to reenacting, it's too expensive to collect now, there are few younger collecting because of the price, almost all my friends who know I collect wish that they did too, but they simply have not got the cash, and at almost £35.00 a figure, I don't blame them, I sometimes wonder if I'm wasting my money on the, sure they look great and are fun to fool around with and create dioramas, but at the same time, a hobby is meant to be enjoyable, and this makes ruins the hobby for me.

Just my personal opinion and view.

It's your personal opinion and view- which I support 100000% !!!!

I have been collecting KC for well over 10 years now- I started with the Yanks sets and Arnhem sets. KC back then seemed like a company that really tried to make toy soldiers affordable for all. I can accept price increases on new items as I fully understand the concept behind increased prices and have been ok with it over the years. It just boggles my simple grunt mind as to why prices have to be increased on old stock?? I don't get it- I just don't. Haven't the costs of material, labor and freight already been calculated INTO the costs of the previously released items??

Part of the fun of this has been buying $21 figures against the $33 ones- great example was the British AWI figures that were retired this year.
I just don't get this.

I currently collect KC WW2, Egypt and AWI lines. I spend approximately $2-$3G each year on KC figures. This pretty much seals the deal for me- goodbye WW2 and AWI. Guess I'll stick it out in the desert.

Some questions I have read discussed inventory levels at dealers- there are at least 3 shops 30 minutes away from me that have very extensive inventory that this will affect.

Wonder what the discounts will be like at the next show I attend. I guess if prices jump up 10% and a dealer gives me a 10% break, I should be happy as I am still paying original retail?? Is this where this is going??

I may have been born at night but it wasn't last night- I wish KC all the best in their future endeavors, but this just seems wrong to me as a very loyal customer, which you just lost.

 

[Tony Neville]

It's your personal opinion and view- which I support 100000% !!!!

I have been collecting KC for well over 10 years now- I started with the Yanks sets and Arnhem sets. KC back then seemed like a company that really tried to make toy soldiers affordable for all. I can accept price increases on new items as I fully understand the concept behind increased prices and have been ok with it over the years. It just boggles my simple grunt mind as to why prices have to be increased on old stock?? I don't get it- I just don't. Haven't the costs of material, labor and freight already been calculated INTO the costs of the previously released items??

Part of the fun of this has been buying $21 figures against the $33 ones- great example was the British AWI figures that were retired this year.
I just don't get this.

I currently collect KC WW2, Egypt and AWI lines. I spend approximately $2-$3G each year on KC figures. This pretty much seals the deal for me- goodbye WW2 and AWI. Guess I'll stick it out in the desert.

Some questions I have read discussed inventory levels at dealers- there are at least 3 shops 30 minutes away from me that have very extensive inventory that this will affect.

Wonder what the discounts will be like at the next show I attend. I guess if prices jump up 10% and a dealer gives me a 10% break, I should be happy as I am still paying original retail?? Is this where this is going??

I may have been born at night but it wasn't last night- I wish KC all the best in their future endeavors, but this just seems wrong to me as a very loyal customer, which you just lost.

Chris

You may have missed my post of earlier. The price is on items that are still being made but are older running items.

My example was DD55 this is from 2005 and in the UK retailed at £21.95. K&C dont make 2000 and then have them sit on the shelf and then increase the price. They make an intial run of 500+ and then schedule in the factory top up runs of 100+. The issue is a figure that was costed in 2005 (based on raw materials and labour etc) is now not the same as the figure made in 2010 some five years later.

You may hold a DD55 from 2005 and 2010 in your hand and see no differance but the 2010 metal is 'x' more expensive and the cost of labour has increased substantionally.

This differance in price has been taken by K&C up to now. What they are saying is that as of Jan the 1st they will have to bring the price up to match the cost to manfacture the figure at the current rate. As has been pointed out there are some 350+ lines affected which if you look at in reverse is a huge cost that K&C have been taking on the chin.

They are therfore giving you a heads up to get the figures you may want at the current price. This is by no means a SALE!! And of course as also mentioned that if these items which are no doubt on the retirement radar as well may not even see the Jan1st deadline to increase. NO no need to rush out or panic but at the same time if there are items you are after then you have the chance and time to decide when to get them knowing that a price increase on that item is coming.

We are sending a list to all of our colletors in the next week or so of the items that are listed as going up.

Hope this helps clarify a few issues that you have mentioned, but also understand your concern

Tony Neville
K&C UK

 

[Spitfrnd]

It might also be asked "why retroactive?" When a dealer has an item on his shelf, you can't tell the difference between one made pre 2009 or post 2010. They all look the same. To keep track of the difference manufacturing dates would be a logistical nightmare. Toy soldiers are not like pharmaceuticals, for instance, where through bar coding and radar technology, you can tell which came in first so they can be sold first (FIFO). There is no expiry dating on a toy soldier.

I am sorry Brad but I don't follow that. I grew up in retailing in a hardware store (many thousands of items) well before barcoding and where all items had price tags that were applied by hand or prices keep in paper journals. Keeping up with different prices for different vintage items was never a problem, it was just part of the job. Barcodes just made it much easier.

 

[The Military Workshop]

Chris,

You commented :

"Part of the fun of this has been buying $21 figures against the $33 ones- great example was the British AWI figures that were retired this year.
I just don't get this".

Have you considered that the reason why the British Redcoat AWI's were retired might be because K&C could not keep doing production runs at todays costs but still sell them at the original prices ? Whilst you don't get it I am pretty sure it did not make much economic sense to K&C.

The question some might consider might be is it better to have a figure continue at $32 rather than not have it available at all. As I said in my previous post it is going to be interesting to see which disappear forever and which continue at a higher price.

Regards
Brett
PS Tony just explained it much better than I did. I certainly would not want the Churchill figure to retire.

 

[jazzeum]

I am sorry Brad but I don't follow that. I grew up in retailing in a hardware store (many thousands of items) well before barcoding and where all items had price tags that were applied by hand or prices keep in paper journals. Keeping up with different prices for different vintage items was never a problem, it was just part of the job. Barcodes just made it much easier.

I agree with you about different prices for different items. However, I was referring to different prices for the same item.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I agree with you about different prices for different items. However, I was referring to different prices for the same item.

I think Spitfrnd is referring to different prices for than same item. i.e. the current price for the old stock and the new price for newly produced stock. But that opens another can of worms . Dealers with different inventory levels of the same item will be selling the same figure at 2 different prices at the same time. Some dealers will have some old stock and others will have only new stock at a higher price.

A real question is what are inventory levels on the old stock being affected, and how much will be left by year end?

Terry

 

[thebritfarmer]

Perhaps the next time there is a price increase everything will go up at once to avoid all of this.

 

[Currahee Chris]

Chris

You may have missed my post of earlier. The price is on items that are still being made but are older running items.

My example was DD55 this is from 2005 and in the UK retailed at £21.95. K&C dont make 2000 and then have them sit on the shelf and then increase the price. They make an intial run of 500+ and then schedule in the factory top up runs of 100+. The issue is a figure that was costed in 2005 (based on raw materials and labour etc) is now not the same as the figure made in 2010 some five years later.

As you were- I stand firmly corrected- I understand now. Still, admittedly for me, and this is something I have had to review personally- which I think all collectors will need to review in-house- how many lines can I keep up with?? I held myself for the longest time with WW2 DDAY, WAFFEN SS, and Arnhem figures. Wasn't happy to let Russians, Iwo or Bulge set sail but understood that I had to. Admittedly, setting realistic collecting expectations allowed me- as I believe it will for other collectors- to admire from afar, the Airplanes, Kreigsmarines, AK and Italian releases. Collectors will either have to get a raise to keep pace with previous releases and current ones, trim purchases from other lines and get the new ones, or admire from afar like I am. I Cannot see any other courses of action.

I guess I can forsee this being a bit of a headache for some dealers- especially at shows- as some dealers may be selling original run figures for $25 and the other guy, who moves his inventory (like Treefrog) looks like a price gouger when really, he isn't,because he is selling his at $33 a pop due to their figures coming from a newer batch. I guess dealers have to decide for themselves if the increased cost is worth the potential negative perception. Not everyone is going to get the word on this.

Putting all the cards on the table, I knew the time was coming for me to realistically assess where I stood with KC. Looks like I am going with the Egyptians as the pace of releases/retirements works for me and will cherry pick WW2 and AWI releases at a rate of 1or 2 a year.

Kindest regards
CC

 

[Currahee Chris]

The question some might consider might be is it better to have a figure continue at $32 rather than not have it available at all. As I said in my previous post it is going to be interesting to see which disappear forever and which continue at a higher price.

Yeah, that is a really good question. Time will tell. This is probably a loaded question but have other manufacturers done this sort of thing? If so, what was the fallout?

Cheers
CC

 

[jazzeum]

Perhaps the next time there is a price increase everything will go up at once to avoid all of this.

I think a lot of the dismay that we are seeing on this thread could have been avoided had K & C put out a release to dealers and collectors explaining the increases. I think people will be more understanding (not necessarily happy though) if something is clearly explained to them. This was not communicated to the ultimate consumer very well.

 

[gk5717]

Not that anyone cares, but in the past since I collect the Austalian-Turk series I would have bought all the new sets coming out. Now I will buy probably half of the new series.
Recently this thought has come to me when I get a package of TS, I,ll open it, set the figures and the tank on a table to admire them. Then with the bill in my hand I will think, I have just spent $400, yes $400 for 8 figures and a tank! Something is out of sinc here.
Hope I,m not losing the toy soldier bug, always said I wouldn,t. But I said that about baseball cards, and I don,t have a card to my name now.
Gary

 

[Mitch]

Good point but, as I raised this last night when only two posts were on the announcement I was told that this was the place as it keeps collectors upto date at the minute the news is broke.

Would have been better for K&C to have done this himself and saved all this controversy. The forum was not IMO where this type of announcement should have been made
Mitch

Perhaps the next time there is a price increase everything will go up at once to avoid all of this.

 

[Currahee Chris]

Not that anyone cares, but in the past since I collect the Austalian-Turk series I would have bought all the new sets coming out. Now I will buy probably half of the new series.
Recently this thought has come to me when I get a package of TS, I,ll open it, set the figures and the tank on a table to admire them. Then with the bill in my hand I will think, I have just spent $400, yes $400 for 8 figures and a tank! Something is out of sinc here.
Hope I,m not losing the toy soldier bug, always said I wouldn,t. But I said that about baseball cards, and I don,t have a card to my name now.
Gary

Me too, no more football cards as well.

Regarding the WW1 turks- is that because you don't like how they look or they are just too expensive?

Your post sort of supports my position- while the news of the price increase is regretable, we have all started to question the price increases and how we can justify them. I mentioned that I really liked the new French building that was released- went home and thought it over and have decided to pass- I already own the first Normandy village- can't I spend that $189 on something more relevant to my collecting aims? The answer was yes so, again, that particular building will be something I will admire from afar.

 

[mikemiller1955]

I now own (Thank God) all the K&C Medieval Knights/Crusaders series...every single one...I have over 80 sets of these...a few multiples (archers)...but for the most part...this series does not lend to multiple purchases of identical figures...so I have several thousands of dollars invested in this series...

anybody that knows me...know I mostly collect JJD but I do love my K&C Knights/Saracens...these are beautiful figures and I have never regretted collecting them...I will buy more as they are issued in the future regardless of the price...

Now..............I supplement my JJD "1812 Chippewa" British Nap side with the K&C NA Cold Stream series...they match well in my opinion...I have 29 sets of these K&C's...assorted NA's between 125-193...

The K&C Medieval series foot soldiers retail from $29-$32 per piece...the mounted figues retail from $75-$89 per piece...I will buy any new pieces...

The British Napoleonic series foot soldiers retail from $25-$32..the newer releases at $32 and the older releases at $25...

While I probably don't want anymore multiples of the Crusaders and will only collect the new releases...the Nap figures lend to multiple purchases...firing lines...squares...large formations...



*****I'm tempted to quickly buy the multiples I might want for my Nap side before the prices increase in a couple of months...does this make sense...*****



If I can buy them now for $25 instead of waiting until they go up to $32...it seems like a good deal to me...it's a 30% increase...which sure does seem like a big jump to me...I try to keep my monthly purchases under $500-$600 a month...



*****I always thought that the original cost of a product was mostly due to research and development...then to mass produce the finished product was much cheaper...*****



but in this case...the research is already done...the hours of studying the uniform...the hours of sculpting the original prototype...the time spent getting the first run done...I thought that was the hardest and most expensive part...



*****so...all I can conclude is that the 30% junp is for labor and material to re-produce another run of a prototype that already exists...*****



I'm just having a hard time justifying a 30% increase after all the hard work has been done...



*****am I wrong...I am so tempted to bite the bullet and buy them now at a lower price before they go up...am I wrong...does 30% seem like a huge jump on a prototype that already exists???
*****

 

[Sahara]

The hobby just isn't as much fun when you can't even afford the pieces you want to complete a line. I sorta feel like I'm being pushed out of the hobby. Oh well there are bigger and brighter things in this world and I need not be concerned about toy soldiers much longer at this current pace of toy soldier price increases.

 

[jomartvr]

I agree with Gary and Sahara.
The prices are creeping towards $35- $40 per figure for KC. I like the Beersheba figures, however, when I look at the Turkish soldiers I ask myself is the painting worth the price? No. Also while I prefer KC, especially their ARW figures there are plenty of toy soldiers by other vendors available on EBAY for $30 or less, albeit the quality may be as exacting as KC, I am willing to live with it.
Benjamin

 

[Currahee Chris]

Hey Mike-

perhaps this explains why you Crusaders fans haven't seen the new releases in this dispatches- perhaps there are pricing concerns on those sets.

 

[jbonzo1]

PAGING ANDY!!!
Where are you? Your silence is deafening. I understand the need to raise prices on new product and new production of older items. What I find outrageous it the increase in price of in stock older sets. I don't care if it's one set left in the entire USA, it's a slap in the face to the very people who have supported you and your company and the dealers of your products. It is beyond BS, it is betrayal.

 

[gk5717]

As for the Aussies - Turks it is the cost factor. Unfortunately I am a completest, but I have learned to change my ways due to prices.
Funny Chris you mentioned the upcoming building, in the past I would have been all over it. But, again due to cost, I,m passing on it.
In a way it is a bit unfair with this thread as it seems we are picking on K&C, but with me, due to the quality of K&C, I have pretty much decided to buy only K&C and T Gunn products from here on out, as the other companies are just as expensive and (my opinion) not the quality of the above two.
Geez, reading this entire thread has really put me out of the collecting mood!
Gary