Pricing, where's your limit?? (2 Viewers)

[Jack]

It's what you see in all those Battle of the Bulge dios. :wink2: Chris

Candle wax?

 

[swalterh]

Had to go back to see what the original question was about. Don't know that there is a specific $ price per fig for my limit. I look at comparable brands and prices. So when a certain company is 50% higher than the competion, say $45 per fig, I look at the quality. If I'm not getting a better fig then, no, I'm not buying when the other companies are going in the $30-34 range, again for pretty much the same standard, if not better in some cases. As an example, I have hundreds of KC figs in my 8'x3' Naps dio. I would readily have purchased 10-12 of the new French Cav pieces. I have dozens of KC cav figs already. But, the $119 price per fig is a "no go." I would have spent $960+ at the $80-90 range. So could I afford to buy some at the $119 price? Sure, but I won't. I didn't "cut back" I "cut off." KC has decided they will maximize profit and make up for lost volume (my own case to illustrate). It's Andy's company, good luck to them.

So does anyone think that K&C will come down on price? Or will they be able to stay comfortable where they are?

 

[Terp152]

So does anyone think that K&C will come down on price? Or will they be able to stay comfortable where they are?

Sometimes they do. The original RAF Hurricane went for $185, if memory is correct. And they sold out. Subsequent Typhoons came out in Sept 2011 at $369, and are still available at some retailers. The new P 51, just announced for a March release is listed at $235 (how is that price reduction possible with all that newly found and oh so expensive Chinese labor?). Chris

 

[swalterh]

Sometimes they do. The original RAF Hurricane went for $185, if memory is correct. And they sold out. Subsequent Typhoons came out in Sept 2011 at $369, and are still available at some retailers. The new P 51, just announced for a March release is listed at $235 (how is that price reduction possible with all that newly found and oh so expensive Chinese labor?). Chris

Chris

I have to say that I agree with you on this. The labor and materials argument is not going to fly. I would have refrained from responding to Andy's rebutal, but he took a shot at the "weakening US dollar" to cover the fact that he really didn't have a good explanation for his price increases. Also, I found the gun to the head comment in bad taste. But, as you said. It's his company and someone has to make the call on final pricing.

Shane

 

[Simpson & his donkey.]

Chris,

Yes it is true FL figures a lot of money and yes it is true I do not stock FL. However here is my view on this thread.

Sammy started the thread but as he indicated he only buys occasional K&C ACW figures for his son. Any such figures have been $32 for years as there have been no new releases for a while (cheapest FL ACW figure is $55). From the time those figures have been $32 until now FL WWII figures have increased in price and clearly represent the great bulk of his purchases. Why would he be concerned about peoples thoughts about K&C prices ?

Personally I think he was bored and knew this thread would create some "interest" as he has seen similar threads many times and knows they always get a reaction. In fact an hour later he revived a 2 1/2 year old thread that had had no replies at all (showing a K&C Gunther Prien figure compared to what appears to be a handpainted Prien model) and said "and yea I'm that bored". I know because I replied to his two posts in that thread.

As has been mentioned anybody can post wherever they like on this forum. However I wonder what the reaction would have been if Rob had been currently posting and started a similar thread in FL area (see also a comment I am about to make in reply to Mitch).

Now dont get me wrong there are clearly a number of people in this thread who have issues with K&C pricing and as a dealer of K&C that concerns me as I am sure it does K&C.

If you look through this thread you will see comments about FL pricing (trucks same price as tanks and 57% increases etc) so any concern/interest Sammy might have about K&C pricing seems much less of a problem than with a similar thing happening with the brand we all know he collects. None of these points in this thread seemed to be of interest to Sammy so I guess he is not so interested with FL prices as he is with K&C's effect on others. Perhaps there might be FL collectors who are also concerned about price rises but Sammy does not want to raise that issue (he was not that bored).

Just my thoughts.
Brett

Brett see we can be civil to each other. Chris.

 

[sammy719]

Sammy mate,
You are so right. Lets get back to talking prices in a general discussion. Please tell me how FL can justify charging $65 for a single figure.??? You opened the door so, as my NY lawyers mates will tell you, the judge will now let the question be put to the man in the witness box.:smile2:
Cheers Howard

Well Howard, I really don't know how any company charges what they charge?? as far as my collection I buy here and there so it allows me to save to make my purchases, plus I do use the layaway program offered by Treefrog, it works for me, as far as justifying...you can take that question to Matt or Constantine, they reply pretty good to any emails, I hope this answers the judges question, but glad to hear were discussing prices for a change, oh...that's what this thread was about, my bad...Sammy

 

[Northgate Woods]

Sometimes they do. The original RAF Hurricane went for $185, if memory is correct. And they sold out. Subsequent Typhoons came out in Sept 2011 at $369, and are still available at some retailers. The new P 51, just announced for a March release is listed at $235 (how is that price reduction possible with all that newly found and oh so expensive Chinese labor?). Chris

Chris mate,
You have to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The Typhoon was a huge bloody beast with a heavy body and large wing span. If now you compare the original RAF Hurricane, like you mentioned, which was released in September, 2009 at $185 and compound that figure by 6% each year then you come up the P-51 to be released in March, 2013 at $235.
A 6% increase p.a. in the cost of raw materials and wages in "Today's China" will suit me right down to the ground.
Cheers Howard

 

[swalterh]

Chris mate,
You have to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The Typhoon was a huge bloody beast with a heavy body and large wing span. If now you compare the original RAF Hurricane, like you mentioned, which was released in September, 2009 at $185 and compound that figure by 6% each year then you come up the P-51 to be released in March, 2013 at $235.
A 6% increase p.a. in the cost of raw materials and wages in "Today's China" will suit me right down to the ground.
Cheers Howard

So, where do you see the eventual ceiling on K&C prices? And do you see companies like WBritains following if K&C continues their climb?

Shane

 

[wayne556517]

It's what you see in all those Battle of the Bulge dios. :wink2: Chris

Chalk dust and icing sugar......................^&confuse.............^&grin

 

[Terp152]

Chris mate,
You have to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The Typhoon was a huge bloody beast with a heavy body and large wing span. If now you compare the original RAF Hurricane, like you mentioned, which was released in September, 2009 at $185 and compound that figure by 6% each year then you come up the P-51 to be released in March, 2013 at $235.
A 6% increase p.a. in the cost of raw materials and wages in "Today's China" will suit me right down to the ground.
Cheers Howard

Howard, what do you think the price difference is of the polystone used in the larger Typhoon? Do you really think that results in a 100% price increase? I think the "market" would not support the price, that's why we see the current aircraft pricing. A market correction to an over reach. Chris

 

[wayne556517]

Well Howard, I really don't know how any company charges what they charge?? as far as my collection I buy here and there so it allows me to save to make my purchases, plus I do use the layaway program offered by Treefrog, it works for me, as far as justifying...you can take that question to Matt or Constantine, they reply pretty good to any emails, I hope this answers the judges question, but glad to hear were discussing prices for a change, oh...that's what this thread was about, my bad...Sammy

Not everyone,s mate...................^&grin^&grin

 

[BLReed]

.......The labor and materials argument is not going to fly. I would have refrained from responding to Andy's rebutal, but he took a shot at the "weakening US dollar" to cover the fact that he really didn't have a good explanation for his price increases.

I totally agree with you. The same excuse has been ongoing for at least five years. I didn't believe it then
and still don't. The silent forum members have just moved on to collecting other lines. The prices may be
more, but the sculpting and painting are apparent. Peter Nathan has a shop in Sydney that carries a wide
array of several manufactures. Have him line up samples on the counter. There are some dealers in the U.S.
also that can give you more insight [off the record].

 

[The Military Workshop]

I totally agree with you. The same excuse has been ongoing for at least five years. I didn't believe it then
and still don't. The silent forum members have just moved on to collecting other lines. The prices may be
more, but the sculpting and painting are apparent. Peter Nathan has a shop in Sydney that carries a wide
array of several manufactures. Have him line up samples on the counter. There are some dealers in the U.S.
also that can give you more insight [off the record].

Not sure why you would be telling an American forum member to have an Australian dealer line up figures on
a counter. Might be easier for Shane to go to a US dealer. And as we know if Shane does make it down here he
will head to sunny Brisbane where I wont put a gun to his head and we can continue the debate about the Aussie/USA
contributions to various wars !!.

 

[waynepoo]

Well of course, that's answer, it's all a giant conspiracy dreamed up by a couple of scotsmen sitting around in a tall ivory tower in Hong Kong who decided 'we will rip all our costumers off just because we can'....seriously some of you blokes need to take a bex and have a good lie down....
Wayne.

 

[The Military Workshop]

Slow down guys. I can not keep up. Four pages in 4 hours.

Some general comments which are "late" now I have looked again..

No idea of production numbers. However there have been obvious K&C series where certain figures have been bought in multiples and had more than one production run.
In my experience some marching LAH and the kneeling and standing Black Watch Naps would have to be up there in terms of production numbers. I would guess same applies to some Britains figures (ie like a Standing firing 24th foot compared to Chard figure). I would doubt the best selling FL Nap figures comes anywhere near K&C or Britains best sellers simply becuase FL produce far more options for a particular regiment plus variety of Regiments.

No idea what the collector numbers are as it is constantly evolving and some collectors can stop overnight and new ones will start. As far as this forum goes I know the majority of my collectors are not on it and do not read it even though quite a few are aware of it. There are also some regular readers who have not bothered to join.

Mitch is correct in that there are some very big collectors around who are not into shows and forums. I know some regulars who do not even have a computer.

I note with interest some comparisons made between K&C and CS and Britains prices. However might I throw in another point that may affect the situation. Richard Walker a few days ago made a post indicating Britains are running out of stock and making less (I am greatly looking forward to their new catalogue as they are clearly planning a big "Wow" for their collectors). Newly released WWI Germans are already sold out at Britains (but not dealers).

Compare the current available figures from Britains, CS and TG and they are considerably less than from either K&C or FL..Some may recall comments in the past where it was said that popular series like the LAH actually gives Andy the turnover to make the less commercial subjects which would otherwise not get made. K&C and FL would clearly have more stock in order to offer the variety of series and numbers of figures within those series. Holding large amounts of stock is money sitting on shelves in a warehouse. CS items may only be 20% of what K&C or FL may have with far less series and stock. Collectors as a group are very demanding and having so much choice probably does come at a cost.

Just some general ramblings.

A minor point for Sammy. I would disagree with your comment that any posts about you have been nasty.

Regards
Brett

 

[uksubs]

Sometimes they do. The original RAF Hurricane went for $185, if memory is correct. And they sold out. Subsequent Typhoons came out in Sept 2011 at $369, and are still available at some retailers. The new P 51, just announced for a March release is listed at $235 (how is that price reduction possible with all that newly found and oh so expensive Chinese labor?). Chris

What interesting about the KC Hawker typhoon is at the same time Figarti had the twin engined Owl out for the same price which is even bigger plane and better detail :rolleyes2:

 

[BLReed]

Not sure why you would be telling an American forum member to have an Australian dealer line up figures on a counter.

Because it is a world class shop with an Internet access that carries a wide array of manufactures
and doesn't flog one manufacture. I didn't pay attention to where he was located. My bad. Still it would
benefit some Australians to visit for a visual, in-the-hand and private evaluation. In the U.S. I'd visit Treefrog. Both
carry First Legion for comparison among others, and be able to discuss in private.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

So, where do you see the eventual ceiling on K&C prices? And do you see companies like WBritains following if K&C continues their climb?

Shane

I think it is overly simplistic to suggest that K&C sets the market price and all others follow. Rising TS prices are tied to production costs in China. Prices are going up no matter what K&C does. Some manufacturers like TGM and CS can keep their prices lower as part of their marketing strategy so the bigger the price gap, the more competitive they are. If anyone feels prices for an item are too high - don't buy the item. That's what I do and it applies to every manufacturer on a model by model basis. There is no TS that I have to buy.

Terry

 

[waynepoo]

Because it is a world class shop with an Internet access that carries a wide array of manufactures
and doesn't flog one manufacture. I didn't pay attention to where he was located. My bad. Still it would
benefit some Australians to visit for a visual, in-the-hand and private evaluation. In the U.S. I'd visit Treefrog. Both
carry First Legion for comparison among others, and be able to discuss in private.

As this is a thread about prices you of course would've noticed that the 'world class shop' is on average 10% more expensive than the other dealer who has all brands bar one.
Wayne.

 

[Northgate Woods]

Because it is a world class shop with an Internet access that carries a wide array of manufactures
and doesn't flog one manufacture. I didn't pay attention to where he was located. My bad. Still it would
benefit some Australians to visit for a visual, in-the-hand and private evaluation. In the U.S. I'd visit Treefrog. Both
carry First Legion for comparison among others, and be able to discuss in private.

Mr Reed Sir,
I am assuming that your remarks are directed at myself. I don't know nowadays when members just come on with a post and not address it to someone or to all in general. I have been to many TS large shows in the US and handle all brands before purchasing and although my collection is mainly K&C and JJD, I do have Britains Zulus, ACW and Sudan plus some TG, FL and CS. I think that gives me the perfect right to speak on all these manufacturers.
The subject is not about quality, sculpting, painting, design, etc. but about price.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These I will admit do have some bearing on the price. But there are many other things to be taken into account. Having studied Cost Accounting in my younger days and having been in retail for some 35 years I feel I have a fair grip on the subject.
Can I see the difference between a $32 Britains figure and a $39 JJD and a $45 K&C figure. Yes I can.
Can I see the difference between a $45 KC figure and a $65 FL figure. No I cannot. At $49 you may have won me over but not at $65.
The subject really is a dead end subject because none of us know how the various manufacturers cost their figures from design, sculpting, moulding, painting, warehousing, sales staff cost, advertising, shipping, manufacturer's margin, retailer's margin, etc. etc.
Enough for today the dogs near a bath.
Cheers Howard