Pricing, where's your limit?? (1 Viewer)

Northgate Woods said:
Jack mate "cobber",^&grin
One of my biggest beefs about travelling in the US of A is bloody tipping. As you stated the US should cut out mandatory tipping in place of a decent wage. I never mind tipping for "great service" but when every man and his dog puts out his hand for a tip when he is just doing the job he is paid for, then there is something totally wrong with the state of the nation.

Back to the main issue. TS prices have been going up like everything else, petrol, food, rent, etc. so its no big deal to me that I have to pay a little more for the TS I like. Just received RA04, IWJ11 and WS15 from NY and I have been comparing the quality against recent releases of the same tanks. K&C have improved out of sight since these three were retired some ten years ago.
Just enjoy the hobby and smell the roses.:smile2:
Cheers Howard


PS Melbourne is the TS Capital of Australia.
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Howard,
have highlighted your post b/c it is so true. I travel for a living and I swear, from my hotel room to my plane seat, someone has there hand in my pocket for a tip, it is unbelievable. I do it, b/c that is what we do, but sometimes it is annoying even to me.

As for the 3 sets you got, let me throw 2 cents in here. To me, the vintage sets are the most unique, I don't mind that it is not completely realistic, I look at my collection as a little history, little reality, little art and just darn pleasant to the eye. THat is why I collect Trophy, other vintage gloss, old K&C, etc., each set is unique and has a personal touch to it! And it is painted by a bloody proper Englishman. Did I get that right mates, cobbers.......................Gawd*** I need a thesaurus, translator, dictionary all rolled in to one when I come on this board! (Just kidding, it is a fascinating melting pot on here and very entertaining).

TD
 
swalterh said:
“Fairer topic in the general discussion section?”

Since when is anything in life fair? This is a discussion about business and the industry, not a PTA meeting. Do all of the devout K&C collectors honestly believe that K&C is not at the top of the industry?

Honestly, I would have expected the K&C camp to handle this topic with a little more dignity. Instead all we see is constant complaining about this topic and how it is somehow unfair to K&C.

I hate to bring this up. But, if a company doesn’t know how to carry the target on its back that inevitably comes from being out front, then it isn't going to stay there for very long.

Obviously this discussion regarding pricing is an issue between K&C and their disaffected customers who believe that $44 per foot figure is a bit on the high side. These same individuals have elected to purchase elsewhere due to their view that the rising price point is on the verge of getting out of control.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that K&C, CS and Britain’s are very similar companies and generally compete for the same target market.

Yes there are other more expensive producers (i.e. First Legion and St. Petersburg), but they are clearly going after a different (and smaller) target market. The real question that none of the devout K&C crowd wants to acknowledge is whether or not a $14-16 disparity between CS/Britain’s and K&C is really a “fair” difference.

I think we can all acknowledge that throughout the company's existence, K&C has more consistently produced superior products and has done a better job of providing the type of customer service that their collectors desire. For this they deserve a better margin. But, again the issue is whether or not these factors are worth $14-16 more. I suppose the market will ultimately have the final say.

Shane
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I don't know that the TS companies are after the same target market. While there is certainly some overlap, the price difference between figures is wide, and the companies tend to specialize in some periods and not in others.

Prices for newly released basic figures are

Britain's $32
TGM $32
CS $35
JJD $39
K&C $44
FL $60

That's a big range of prices, especially when buying 5 or 6 figures in a series. There is a big jump in price from Britains, CS and TGM to K&C ($10 - $12 per figure) and another big jump ($16) from K&C to FL. K&C prices are 1/3 more than the cheapest producers and FL prices are almost double that of the cheapest producers.

Terry

Terry
 
Phantom Warrior said:
I don't know that the TS companies are after the same target market. While there is certainly some overlap, the price difference between figures is wide, and the companies tend to specialize in some periods and not in others.

Prices for newly released basic figures are

Britain's $32
TGM $32
CS $35
JJD $39
K&C $44
FL $60

That's a big range of prices, especially when buying 5 or 6 figures in a series. There is a big jump in price from Britains, CS and TGM to K&C ($10 - $12 per figure) and another big jump ($16) from K&C to FL. K&C prices are 1/3 more than the cheapest producers and FL prices are almost double that of the cheapest producers.

Terry

Terry
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Terry

You make some good points here. I appreciate someone who is willing to engage on the business aspects of the topic.

In addition to the ongoing discussion about K&C pricing, another question that comes up in my mind is whether or not collectors would be willing to pay more for some of the cheaper priced brands (i.e. Britain’s, CS & TMG) if their prices were to go up closer to K&C’s.

If the market would not support competing companies’ price increases, it would give reason to believe that K&C would have room to go even higher. I think K&C is going to continue to feel for their upward limit on pricing. I'm not entirely convinced that some of the other firms are going to have this ability. Again, I eventually see the top end price for a single foot figure settling somewhere around $75 within the next couple of years.

Shane
 
jazzeum said:
Greg, I don't see that causal connection. One thing it doesn't take into account is increased production, which will lessen the return. That is the reason the older retired items still do well: scarcity. Is this a theory or do you have support for this?



That is all true or maybe there are other ways to spend the money we would have othewise have spent :smile2:
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you know brad , i love the items everybody makes. but the money grab has gotten out of control and unfortunatley just taken the fun out of it for me. like tom tubel, i am just going to hunt around for some of those nice trophy sets. i will still hunt around for a bargin on ebay to fill in some holes in kc i mised the past couple of years but when figures got over $25 i just told myself back then that over $40 would be the limit. i think its time i spent or put more effort into making dois. hell i have enough buildings, trees, shrubs and certainly enough toy soldiers to do this with now i just need to hone my skills at making scenes.
 
HAWKEYE said:
you know brad , i love the items everybody makes. but the money grab has gotten out of control and unfortunatley just taken the fun out of it for me. like tom tubel, i am just going to hunt around for some of those nice trophy sets. i will still hunt around for a bargin on ebay to fill in some holes in kc i mised the past couple of years but when figures got over $25 i just told myself back then that over $40 would be the limit. i think its time i spent or put more effort into making dois. hell i have enough buildings, trees, shrubs and certainly enough toy soldiers to do this with now i just need to hone my skills at making scenes.
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Greg,

I don't really see the money grab but then again no one is putting a gun to my head to buy this or that. After all these years, I don't really have a prime focus anymore, although it's leaning more to a mix of Trophy sets, K & C (my first love) and First Legion Civil War. I just picked up a few Trophy Wild West sets and was pretty happy about that. As I mentioned in the early part of this thread, I don't make hard and fast rules and just go where my interests go, if that's picking up (recently) a wooden Stuka and the recent poly P 40, some FL Civil War, some Hocker or Trophy. I just don't see the point in saying I won't do this or that but, of course, to each his own.

Brad
 
uksubs said:
Thing is Sammy asked for the thread to be moved to general toy soldier thread but nothing happend very odd ?^&confuse . Would make for a more fairer open topic
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I most certainly did ask awhile back for it to be moved, but as I look at the posts, (over 160) and the views over(4,000) in just 3 days!! there hasn't been a topic with this much conversation in a long time under the K&C section, so maybe it's fine right where it's at, sure brought out alot of conversation from view points about buying habits to price point from different manufacturers, and so on, and Rob didn't even join in on the topic??:)just kidding Rob, I do hope to see him back soon, thanks to all for sharing thier opinions on this topic, I may agree or disagree with some of it, but hell we never even had one deleted post!!{eek3}...Sammy
 
Sammy,

You made the request in the thread, unless you sent a pm. Assuming the former, Scott and his colleagues can't be everywhere and read every post.

I think the thread needs to be moved as others like Mitch have suggested. It's not fair to single out one company.

Brad
 
Wow, now that is power.

and on the fourth day...

Did someone say let there be light or something? ^&grin{sm4}:wink2:
 
swalterh said:
Terry

You make some good points here. I appreciate someone who is willing to engage on the business aspects of the topic.

In addition to the ongoing discussion about K&C pricing, another question that comes up in my mind is whether or not collectors would be willing to pay more for some of the cheaper priced brands (i.e. Britain’s, CS & TMG) if their prices were to go up closer to K&C’s.

If the market would not support competing companies’ price increases, it would give reason to believe that K&C would have room to go even higher. I think K&C is going to continue to feel for their upward limit on pricing. I'm not entirely convinced that some of the other firms are going to have this ability. Again, I eventually see the top end price for a single foot figure settling somewhere around $75 within the next couple of years.

Shane
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Shane

I am not convinced that two years will see an increase to seventy five dollars for a foot figure given that a comaparable figure from First Legion would have to hit a hundred dollars or more and a Britains would need to hit forty. It is right in a broad sense to say that figures are aimed at different markets, but only in a very broad sense. surely even the most brand loyal collector collects across brands. Even Sammy - who by repute is primarily a FL man - has purchased K&C for his son, assuming that for the price he sees that as more appropriate in that context. A price rise of that magnitude without some increase from other manufacturers, even if it is a smaller increase, would surely have people jump brands. Do people see themselves as 'TS Collectors' or do they say 'I am a collector of K&C, or Britains or.... Toy Soldiers'. Are people loyal to a brand or are they likely to jump around depending on price, historical interests and taste, as I have done?

For K&C to be the market leader, they would have to know their market too well to look at increases of that magnitude. I cannot see them crossing the fifty dollars threshold in that timeframe. The beauty of a forum, however, is that our posts will survive. In many ways I am a petty, petty man so any opportunity to say 'I told you so' is always welcomed. If I am wrong, which I concede is an event not without precedent, I will rely on your maturity not to mention it.{sm4}

Jack
 
Well as far as my limit, (now that were talking all companies) I hope I don't reach one, as my purchases of toy soldiers are mainly for First Legion and only WWII range, I pick up a few sets here and there, some months more some months less, but I also like my TM Terrain dios, (another in the works for Normandy!!) and as most of you know any commission made dios usually aren't cheap, but to me my First Legion range go very well with the dios, so I may spend less on the range but I like the payoff in the end when I can put it in a neat looking dio, so I guess as long as I'm sticking to my plan I hope I can stay a metal collector for sometime, but who knows?? I may sell it all for football cards tommorow!:)...Sammy
 
Jack said:
Shane

I am not convinced that two years will see an increase to seventy five dollars for a foot figure given that a comaparable figure from First Legion would have to hit a hundred dollars or more and a Britains would need to hit forty. It is right in a broad sense to say that figures are aimed at different markets, but only in a very broad sense. surely even the most brand loyal collector collects across brands. Even Sammy - who by repute is primarily a FL man - has purchased K&C for his son, assuming that for the price he sees that as more appropriate in that context. A price rise of that magnitude without some increase from other manufacturers, even if it is a smaller increase, would surely have people jump brands. Do people see themselves as 'TS Collectors' or do they say 'I am a collector of K&C, or Britains or.... Toy Soldiers'. Are people loyal to a brand or are they likely to jump around depending on price, historical interests and taste, as I have done?

For K&C to be the market leader, they would have to know their market too well to look at increases of that magnitude. I cannot see them crossing the fifty dollars threshold in that timeframe. The beauty of a forum, however, is that our posts will survive. In many ways I am a petty, petty man so any opportunity to say 'I told you so' is always welcomed. If I am wrong, which I concede is an event not without precedent, I will rely on your maturity not to mention it.{sm4}

Jack
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Jack

If we’re going to get into "I told you so" scenarios, then allow me to clarify my $75 bench mark. IMO the top end price in the industry will be $75, meaning FL and the like. You’re probably correct about K&C @ somewhere around $50, but I do believe they will get above, not stay below this mark.

But, yes if I am correct and you are not then I will exercise maturity and refrain from comment. ^&grin{sm4}^&cool

Shane
 
Are we talking 'mind power' verses 'brain power' here:tongue: (Dinner for Schmucks)

......and Tom as for recieving 'broadsides' from across the ditch........us Kiwi's have been dodging Aussie balls for years.{eek3}^&grin:wink2:
 
sammy719 said:
Well as far as my limit, (now that were talking all companies) I hope I don't reach one, as my purchases of toy soldiers are mainly for First Legion and only WWII range, I pick up a few sets here and there, some months more some months less, but I also like my TM Terrain dios, (another in the works for Normandy!!) and as most of you know any commission made dios usually aren't cheap, but to me my First Legion range go very well with the dios, so I may spend less on the range but I like the payoff in the end when I can put it in a neat looking dio, so I guess as long as I'm sticking to my plan I hope I can stay a metal collector for sometime, but who knows?? I may sell it all for football cards tommorow!:)...Sammy
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hey sammy, i got a bunch to sell ya. actually i have a bunch of real cool topps negatives of football player poses they never used from the late fifties to mid seventies that i am going to print in 4x6 and 5x7's and sell. they are beautiful. as for the price of toy soldiers. i don't think they can go much higher. look at all the retired stock on dealers shelves. there is no rush to buy them all up like the old days
 
Desertkiwi said:
Are we talking 'mind power' verses 'brain power' here:tongue: (Dinner for Schmucks)

......and Tom as for recieving 'broadsides' from across the ditch........us Kiwi's have been dodging Aussie balls for years.{eek3}^&grin:wink2:
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Yes I know, you are a dodgy lot! {sm4}

Tom
 
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