Rather poor judgment (1 Viewer)

[ROUGH RIDER]

I talked to my brother ( The Scout Sniper ) after cleaning up his opinion it boils down to this. It's their symbol. Anyone who wants their job can come and get it. Go to youtube and pull up sniper shots very impressive. If I had the same feelings or thoughts as others then every time I saw the ST Georges Cross or Union Jack I should be offended. By the way I'm Irish Catholic. All I have to say is I'm keeping my beautiful English wife all my British toy soldiers my love of Victorian military history and my affection for warm beer, mushy peas and Thorntons treacle toffee. For God Country and the hell of it.

 

[Scott]

Good point Terry. I'd like to go for the higher standard since we're the "civilized" ones.

 

[theBaron]

I talked to my brother ( The Scout Sniper ) after cleaning up his opinion it boils down to this. It's their symbol...

Very true, but we would hope that soldiers representing our society wouldn't choose a Nazi symbol to represent themselves, that they would understand the inherent evil that such a symbol represents. I'll repeat my earlier hypothetical--why don't they use the Blutfahne, then, if it doesn't matter what the symbol originally meant, and that they attach a different meaning to it?

That's at the root of the poor decision, in my opinion, that they don't see this. There are plenty of other symbols that represent the skill of the sniper, that don't connote genocide, but they didn't think of those.

That point leads back to the comment about our culture and its failure to educate, not just to educate that the SS-runes and other Nazi emblems represent evil, but to educate that there are other things out there that represent courage, skill, strength, stealth.

 

[hsm]

Poor Judgement. Anyone who argues otherwise is fooling themselves. someone in that group knew it was a poopy storm brewing.

I know soldiers, and boy can they be dumb!

GL

 

[Scott]

Michael L. "Mikey" Weinstein's organization is on the case. Go Mikey! Chuck Norris carries a Mikey Weinstein lunchbox!

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom...sonnel-in-afghanistan-deal-proper-punishment/

 

[Phil]

Read the link cant say i agree with it......each to there own.

 

[Mitch]

rather confused about this article on many levels.
Mitch

 

[bromhead]

I would seem to be a rather poor choice of symbol to display on a unit's flag. I am with you guys in assuming there was no intentional connection to the German SS and their legacy. It does make me wonder though, why not just avoid any possible issues and choose a different graphic/artwork/symbol for the flag when it was first made?

Noah

agreed as to most younger types having no intentional connection,,thinking the SSs,,a public school education might insure that,but these days most everyone has a camera or vid phone and face book tube is a click away,,i asked one to post the official Corps symbol of the "scout sniper group' to see if thats what it was,,of course when it comes to an incident,,the chain of command goes down not up,,these privates sunk theselves

 

[bromhead]

I talked to my brother ( The Scout Sniper ) after cleaning up his opinion it boils down to this. It's their symbol. Anyone who wants their job can come and get it. Go to youtube and pull up sniper shots very impressive. If I had the same feelings or thoughts as others then every time I saw the ST Georges Cross or Union Jack I should be offended. By the way I'm Irish Catholic. All I have to say is I'm keeping my beautiful English wife all my British toy soldiers my love of Victorian military history and my affection for warm beer, mushy peas and Thorntons treacle toffee. For God Country and the hell of it.

And what you are saying is the ss runes is the official USMC symbol for the scout sniper unit or training,,,provide us with a photo of it at the training facility or a uniform patch please

 

[Denver]

How Does Steve Spielberg Write His Initials ?

 

[Scott]

How Does Steve Spielberg Write His Initials ?

Most likely in cursive and not freekin' runes. (Face Palm!)

 

[Scott]

agreed as to most younger types having no intentional connection,,thinking the SSs,,a public school education might insure that,but these days most everyone has a camera or vid phone and face book tube is a click away,,i asked one to post the official Corps symbol of the "scout sniper group' to see if thats what it was,,of course when it comes to an incident,,the chain of command goes down not up,,these privates sunk theselves

At a certain point of reading this story and the reader's comments on the Marine Corps Times site, I came away with the feeling that defenders of the rune flag either are intellectually dishonest about knowing about the design's history, (as if others believe that the unit's members had NO Idea!) or believe their own Bull.

 

[bromhead]

At a certain point of reading this story and the reader's comments on the Marine Corps Times site, I came away with the feeling that defenders of the rune flag either are intellectually dishonest about knowing about the design's history, (as if others believe that the unit's members had NO Idea!) or believe their own Bull.

agreed,,well said

 

[Phil]

So people who have a different opinion on this are and i quote " intellectually dishonest or believe their own bull"
Thats a mighty fascist position to take suggesting that if someone doesnt hold your position there is something fundamentally wrong with them.

"with the feeling that defenders of the rune flag either are intellectually dishonest about knowing about the design's history, (as if others believe that the unit's members had NO Idea!) or believe their own Bull.

I thought forums where a place to discuss and exchange views on topics, not forgetting the is a TOY SOLDIER forum, i must have been mistaken.

 

[Scott]

Phil, I was confused that you're quoting me down here from my other post "up there." I did write that I read comments from another story on the Marine Corps Times site. I expect US Marines and others to support the Corps and this Scout Sniper unit. BUT, at a certain point as a civilian citizen, I don't really care about what they think or claim the rune SS means to them. It is a rip of the WW II SS design.

Speaking only for myself I have some concern that members of our military don't know or know too well the significance of the SS rune. It's childish or obstinate to claim it means something else than 3rd Reich iconography. It's my concern about fascism in this country to disagree with the SS rune flag's defenders, and those who may be defending the Marine Scout Sniper unit against perceived unfair criticism.


I really like toy soldiers but this section of the forum (Thanks TreeFrog) is for chat.

 

[Phil]

Scott, your right this section of the forum is for chat...its not for berating people who have a differing opinion to yours. I gave my opinion, as did others but not all, without resorting to deriding other peoples opinions in an effort to give credability to my own point of view.

At the end of the day i dont think its that big an issue, and i am well aware of the designs history, you do thats fine and the Marines are entitled to their position as well.

 

[Scott]

........

At the end of the day i dont think its that big an issue, and i am well aware of the designs history, you do thats fine and the Marines are entitled to their position as well.

Phil, I don't believe the US Marines are entitled to any position as the military works for people of the United States (if I may be corny and idealistic) and is subject to civilian review by elected and legally appointed officials. The US military is subject to the Zeitgeist or spirit of the times, as in desegregation, no official political leanings (other than the ballot box) and no sex discrimination and is better for it.
Now this issue my be settled as that photo was from 2010 but it's a case of not allowing Nazi symbols nor heads on pikes in a military that recruits as "A Global Force for Good."

 

[Phil]

Scott, it would be clearly a waste of my time to continue replying to this thread as you seem unable to even concede that i'm entitled to my opinion despite me giving you that very same courtesy.

Cheers.

 

[Scott]

Scott, it would be clearly a waste of my time to continue replying to this thread as you seem unable to even concede that i'm entitled to my opinion despite me giving you that very same courtesy.

Cheers.

Phil, In a debate you have to justify your position. You may be "entitled" to it until facts or logic make you concede that it's an incorrect position. That's what I am attempting here. While we may not "get through" to each other, this is a public forum and if we don't "get through" to each other, we may influence the readers. That's why folks have debates in auditoriums and charge admission. This forum is free and we're on the other side of the planet from each other! Take advantage of it within the rules of forum.

 

[Phil]

Scott, i realise i said i was going to stop replying to this thread......however looks like thats not going to happen. Thanks for the condescending explanation of the workings of a forum...good to know.

What FACTS and LOGIC.....here are the facts.

The runes where used on a banner / flag...thats a fact.
We all no the history behind these runes, thats a fact.
I, and others dont find this offensive another fact.
You and others do find it offensive that is also a fact.
All i have stated in the thread is my lack of objection to this and my objection to the manner and tone in which you put you position across while deriding the opposing position, fact.

The LOGIC or lack of it is how you continue to push your opinion and deride that of others.....which i beleive you will continue to do until you recieve some sort of acknowledgment on my part that i'm in the wrong.....well sorry not going to happen.
Its not a question of FACT as to whether the symbols should have been used or not it is a matter of OPINION whether a person finds offence in their use