Why I'm not buying anymore 1/30 armour (2 Viewers)

[MarkeytMaker]

Great; let's keep it going then.

You said you're not buying anymore 1/30th scale tanks because in your opinion, they are overpriced and the detail is not good and you get a lot more for your money from 1/18th scale tanks.

As Wayne asked, do you mean all 1/30th scale or just K & C?

Are you also including Figarti, Collectors Showcase, First Legion in the mix or is it just K & C you are unhappy with.

200.00 pounds? That's 350.00 US; in this country, the same tank is only 225.00 US or 150.00 pounds, quite a massive price difference. Would you be happier if you had to pay only 150.00 pounds for the same tank?

Perhaps you should not be angry at the manufacturers, but your government for jamming you and K & C Uk and all other importers with VAT and 9,000 other taxes.


Oh and comparing K & C to FOV is apples to hand grenades by the way; how can you compare a resin tank to a plastic and metal diecast tank, but there you go..............

Whoow hey...what am I missing? I'm over on another thread posting pictures of tomatoes that look like devils and low and behold all the real actions over here...cool...I'll go get my beanbag chair

 

[Warrior]

Whoow hey...what am I missing? I'm over on another thread posting pictures of tomatoes that look like devils and low and behold all the real actions over here...cool...I'll go get my beanbag chair

He said he wanted to keep this discussion going, so great, let's discuss it then.

If you are going to make a sweeping statement like "why I am not going to buy anymore 1/30th scale armor" and basically all the major companies in the business today are making 1/30th scale armor, then let's find out why.

I mean let's really get to the root of the issue here.

I'm all ears.

 

[jazzeum]

I'm not sure I understand the distinction: Andy is K & C and K & C is Andy so if you rip the company you are, in effect, ripping him.

It's not really an apt distinction.

I think it's your right to criticize, just as UK Subs or anyone else who is unhappy with any manufacturer, be it Thomas Gunn, First Legion, Figarti, K & C, what have you, but I don't believe the distinction is valid.

The above post seems to have been taken for the proposition that you can't criticize manufacturers. As noted above, you have the right to criticize and express your opinion if it's warranted. That was not the purpose of the post.

The purpose was to show the false dichotomy between this statement (which needs no clarification)

UK.....your not the only one that's come to that conclusion...many are selling and have already sold ALL their K&C collections.....Your paying for the name.... about 20% - 30% overpriced, IMHO.

Fool me once.....shame on you...fool me twice...shame on me..

and this statement

Yes...your not mistaken George, I like Andy, still do...never ripped him and wouldn't....Its the....one step foward...two steps backward company attitude that turned me.

This cynical attitude by Ixec would purport to show that there is a difference between Andy one the one hand and King & Country on the other and some posters have said that criticism is not aimed at the company or the man but the products (as he does not make the master patterns) or that the real work is done by the sculptors. These statements betray little understanding of Andy or K & C, which are indistinguishable. Who do you think designs the model, hires the sculptors, approves what the sculptors make or choose the factories in which the products are made. The answer is rather obvious.

Although we all have the right to express our opinion and should do so if you're not satisfied, to say you're not criticizing Andy, just his products, is a distinction without a difference. Andy is the heart and soul of K & C; without him, there is no K & C.

Be honest and call a spade a spade, not a club.

 

[MarkeytMaker]

He said he wanted to keep this discussion going, so great, let's discuss it then.

If you are going to make a sweeping statement like "why I am not going to buy anymore 1/30th scale armor" and basically all the major companies in the business today are making 1/30th scale armor, then let's find out why.

I mean let's really get to the root of the issue here.

I'm all ears.

This is one of them threads where anything I input on the subject could cause me to be sucked in...I just wanted to let the thread know I'm a new audience member. See I'm learning!

 

[jazzeum]

This looks like a thread that will probably spiral out of control soon.

This prediction seems more apt than ever

 

[MarkeytMaker]

The above post seems to have been taken for the proposition that you can't criticize manufacturers. As noted above, you have the right to criticize and express your opinion if it's warranted. That was not the purpose of the post.

The purpose was to show the false dichotomy between this statement (which needs no clarification)



and this statement



This cynical attitude by Ixec would purport to show that there is a difference between Andy one the one hand and King & Country on the other and some posters have said that criticism is not aimed at the company or the man but the products (as he does not make the master patterns) or that the real work is done by the sculptors. These statements betray little understanding of Andy or K & C, which are indistinguishable. Who do you think designs the model, hires the sculptors, approves what the sculptors make or choose the factories in which the products are made. The answer is rather obvious.

Although we all have the right to express our opinion and should do so if you're not satisfied, to say you're not criticizing Andy, just his products, is a distinction without a difference. Andy is the heart and soul of K & C; without him, there is no K & C.

Be honest and call a spade a spade, not a club.

O.k so much for learning...audience member just stepped on stage!

So someone says; "Many are selling and have already sold their K&C collections"

That's terrific news for me!

 

[IXEC]

This prediction seems more apt than ever

If you were still moderator......yes it would be

 

[jazzeum]

If you were still moderator......yes

Be careful what you wish for

 

[Spitfrnd]

This prediction seems more apt than ever

I am not clear why you say that. So far everyone is trying to be nice and you seem to be trying to tell them why they are not. Can you criticize the product and not the person who owns the company that made it? God I certainly hope so; work is important but there is a life beyond it. Products are things and while those who make them invest much of themselves in them as well I certainly hope and think they keep something back. WE are, I hope, more than the sum of our work products, no matter how creative.

 

[IXEC]

Be careful what you wish for

Then, I fear, free expression, will be lost.....

 

[jazzeum]

I am not clear why you say that. So far everyone is trying to be nice and you seem to be trying to tell them why they are not. Can you criticize the product and not the person who owns the company that made it? God I certainly hope so; work is important but there is a life beyond it. Products are things and while those who make them invest much of themselves in them as well I certainly hope and think they keep something back. WE are, I hope, more than the sum of our work products, no matter how creative.

Where have I told them where they are not nice. I have made a prediction based on several years of experience. I am, of course, happy to be wrong and claim no infallibility like others

When you are dealing with small companies such as are prevalent in our hobby, criticizing the man is tantamount to criticizing the company as they have built something out of nothing. For them it is their work product and life. I have seen this here and in my professional life where we have purchased and sold small companies. It is quite different with large companies where there are vast numbers of owners or shareholders but quite different with small companies.

 

[DMNamiot]

Very interesting discussion that I for one am enjoying. So as long as everyone is civil I dont see a reason to worry about moderation, no matter what Brad may elude too.

Personally, I see a lot of merit on both side of this discussion, if you are critical of the product for whatever reason thats fine because of the big variable we all deal with daily called opinions. But because you are critical of the product doesnt mean you are insulting or some how dissing Andy because he is the owner and priciple creative driver behind what comes out the doors of his stores. He is a grown up and I would hope that because he is in a position of public note he understands that you cant please everyone and that you dont worry or get upset with what folks say. Obviously, he is human and could well take issue with a customer but for the most part I really would doubt the opinions of a few nay sayers are affecting the bottom line. Basicly he set the standard for this scale and now he has a little competition to keep him working to provide a better product just look at Louis's collection if you want to see the progression of this company and how the vehicles have evolved over the years. So if you want more detail then ask for it who knows maybe the man is listening.

Dave

 

[uksubs]

Great; let's keep it going then.

You said you're not buying anymore 1/30th scale tanks because in your opinion, they are overpriced and the detail is not good and you get a lot more for your money from 1/18th scale tanks.

As Wayne asked, do you mean all 1/30th scale or just K & C?

Are you also including Figarti, Collectors Showcase, First Legion in the mix or is it just K & C you are unhappy with.

200.00 pounds? That's 350.00 US; in this country, the same tank is only 225.00 US or 150.00 pounds, quite a massive price difference. Would you be happier if you had to pay only 150.00 pounds for the same tank?

Perhaps you should not be angry at the manufacturers, but your government for jamming you and K & C Uk and all other importers with VAT and 9,000 other taxes.

For a start what with the attacking post

Oh and comparing K & C to FOV is apples to hand grenades by the way; how can you compare a resin tank to a plastic and metal diecast tank, but there you go..............

Let get one thing straight I can buy what I want & I can compare what I want ,let take K&C Sherman firefly over in the UK costs £ 160.00 or I can buy a 21'st Century Firefly for £19.00 , you would think the K&C Firefly costing a very lot more would be the better tank in detail & colour but it not for a start it the wrong colour ,the tank brake wrong + there should be one box on the rear of the turret instead of two , so why would I pay a extra £140.00 to get a poorer looking Sherman firefly tell me that ? or am I just paying for the name
If you look I did reply to Wayne as well
I will be looking at buying some firgarti armour in the near future & would buy first legion armour when they make armour I'am after
K&C soldiers are very nice but there armour for the money there charging I think you should be getting better detail & a correct looking tank , other company's are using different materials to get better detail why can't k&C , I picked up a Frontline pollystone Cromwell the other day for £35.00 & for that price it was ok , colour was right but tracks were just plain bad but they did not charge £180.00 using the same material , so it can't be the cost of materials or labour making cost a lot more , so what is it

 

[uksubs]

Very interesting discussion that I for one am enjoying. So as long as everyone is civil I dont see a reason to worry about moderation, no matter what Brad may elude too.

Personally, I see a lot of merit on both side of this discussion, if you are critical of the product for whatever reason thats fine because of the big variable we all deal with daily called opinions. But because you are critical of the product doesnt mean you are insulting or some how dissing Andy because he is the owner and priciple creative driver behind what comes out the doors of his stores. He is a grown up and I would hope that because he is in a position of public note he understands that you cant please everyone and that you dont worry or get upset with what folks say. Obviously, he is human and could well take issue with a customer but for the most part I really would doubt the opinions of a few nay sayers are affecting the bottom line. Basicly he set the standard for this scale and now he has a little competition to keep him working to provide a better product just look at Louis's collection if you want to see the progression of this company and how the vehicles have evolved over the years. So if you want more detail then ask for it who knows maybe the man is listening.

Dave

Well said Dave

 

[uksubs]

He said he wanted to keep this discussion going, so great, let's discuss it then.

If you are going to make a sweeping statement like "why I am not going to buy anymore 1/30th scale armor" and basically all the major companies in the business today are making 1/30th scale armor, then let's find out why.

I mean let's really get to the root of the issue here.

I'm all ears.

Are you talking as some one who own a Toy soldiers shop I wonder & have a vested interest

 

[Gazza]

Perhaps you should not be angry at the manufacturers, but your government for jamming you and K & C Uk and all other importers with VAT and 9,000 other taxes.

Sorry but if we are talking UK prices the above is not totally accurate.

Look at the prices for TGunn / First Legion / CS in the US and UK; look at the comparable difference if price using exchange rates and then compare to KC.

Nothing to do with tax but to do with profit. Don't have a problem with someone making money but don't try and mislead with all this 'it's taxes waffle'.

KC and TGunn FW-190 there is a nearly 100% price differential

Cheers

Gazza

 

[Simpson & his donkey.]

Brad do you sip port with slippers on. Simmo.

 

[Mitch]

I am sorry guys (well not really)lol but, this topic about not being able to critique a product for fear of upsetting the 'heartbeat' of the comapny is a poor argument/debate IMO. I believe Andy was a marine.. I believe he has succesfully ran a company for 25 years... and, I believe that he should be able to bare the responsibility of what he has brought to the market. That being said, there is little contadiction in the fact that his company has influenced the market and the hobby.

That has been a good thing but, does not ensure that the products are beyond critique (this also applies to all other companies) but to state that they are somehow indistinguishable is an argument I would never dream of standing in court and using as a defence.

You must take the rough with the smooth and, as customers become more and more savvy, more so, than manufacturers give credit for, they will voice their concerns about quality and price. There seems a trend to not want to rock the boat in relation to certain manufacturers and, the defence by its clients is admirable but, you cannot IMO ignore these issues whether, its seems unpalatable or not. What is for sure that this constantly surfaces and it needs debate.
Mitch

 

[jazzeum]

Brad do you sip port with slippers on. Simmo.

Simmo, don't like slippers and am more of a Cabernet Sauvignon kind of guy. I also prefer a good German lager, including some wheat beer.

 

[jazzeum]

Obviously I don't agree with most of Dave Namiot's piece but I have said my piece so there's really not much more to add other than words. Words, just words man