Why I'm not buying anymore 1/30 armour (3 Viewers)

[wayne556517]

Simmo, don't like slippers and am more of a Cabernet Sauvignon kind of guy. I also prefer a good German lager, including some wheat beer.

A good german Lager,well said Brad.

 

[Mitch]

Free speech will never be supressed its what my family served to uphold
Mitch

Then, I fear, free expression, will be lost.....

 

[jazzeum]

A good german Lager,well said Brad.

Not just the lager Wayne but ein köstliches Fräulein

 

[maddadicus]

UK.....your not the only one that's come to that conclusion...many are selling and have already sold ALL their K&C collections.....Your paying for the name.... about 20% - 30% overpriced, IMHO.

Fool me once.....shame on you...fool me twice...shame on me..

Those folks selling their K/C collections have to do with T H E B A D W O R L D W I D E E C O N O M Y and not any protest over quality, detail or even pricing. Some thought to take advantage of the once booming speculator market and are now selling excess. At least those with K/C gripes ought be able to backup their slings and arrows, and the blanket statement above is more of a snipe and not a legit contribution. As to overpriced , $300 for a vehicle with plastic threads isn't? Michael

 

[Warrior]

Let get one thing straight I can buy what I want & I can compare what I want ,let take K&C Sherman firefly over in the UK costs £ 160.00 or I can buy a 21'st Century Firefly for £19.00 , you would think the K&C Firefly costing a very lot more would be the better tank in detail & colour but it not for a start it the wrong colour ,the tank brake wrong + there should be one box on the rear of the turret instead of two , so why would I pay a extra £140.00 to get a poorer looking Sherman firefly tell me that ? or am I just paying for the name
If you look I did reply to Wayne as well
I will be looking at buying some firgarti armour in the near future & would buy first legion armour when they make armour I'am after
K&C soldiers are very nice but there armour for the money there charging I think you should be getting better detail & a correct looking tank , other company's are using different materials to get better detail why can't k&C , I picked up a Frontline pollystone Cromwell the other day for £35.00 & for that price it was ok , colour was right but tracks were just plain bad but they did not charge £180.00 using the same material , so it can't be the cost of materials or labour making cost a lot more , so what is it

Ok, so it's the fact that in your opinion K & C's armor is not accurate and also overpriced.

Great, thanks for the clarification.

So it's not all 1/30th armour you will no longer be buying as you originally stated when you started this thread, it's just K & C then because in your opinion, it's inaccurate and overpriced.


So in the future, to avoid any further grief over cost and aggrevation over inaccurate pieces, you will not be buying anymore K & C 1/30th scale armor then, correct?

So in the future you will not be buying anymore K & C armour and instead be buying Figarti and First Legion and 21st Century and Forces of Valor because in your eyes, all of those manufacturers produce less expensive vehicles that are more accurate.

Based on my sales so far on the Firefly, the vast majority of my customers love the model.

Same deal with the new Tiger I.

Same deal with the new Opel Blitz Maultier with the flak gun on the rear deck.

Same deal with preorders on the new HJ Panther.

Same deal with..........well, you get the idea.

Mystery solved, thanks for your explanation.

Carry on.

 

[Warrior]

Are you talking as some one who own a Toy soldiers shop I wonder & have a vested interest

Well yes, if I sell toy soldiers for a living and if someone has issues with the products I sell, then I want to know what those issues are.

Makes sense does it not?

Why would that line of thought be confusing to you?

 

[tdubel]

I am still waiting for the evidence of 2 statements on here:

1. step forward, step backwards song and dance What are you talking about here?

2. Everyone selling K&C Collections..........I hate to break it to our humble message board, but the hobby is a lot larger than the membership here.


Waiting.................Waiting...........Bueller.........Bueller...........Bueller........




TD

 

[jazzeum]

Tom,

Don't hold your breath for Mr. I've got 20 V1s to sell on Ebay. He's like a hit and run driver who leaves everyone else to clean up the mess

 

[Mitch]

Warrior....

I do not think anyone really is singling out K&C for a bashing here its just that (and has been mentioned) that when K&C started out their products although nice were, lets say naive in nature. Now I like the early look but, they have progressed over the years as they hve learned the trade and, have become more detailed and better at what they do. It has taken a while but, what allows collectors and dealers to say they are sometimes under detailed and overpriced is the influx of new manufacturers who have come into the market and have plied their trade for everyone. They may have benefited from the development in new materials and technology to produce their items but, they have been able to enter the market at a similar or (in some opinions) a better level than K&C.

I think only being on here as a participant since may have seen this debate simmer away and have lip service paid to it but, I have stated many people who contact me for conversions repaints etc comment on the poor clarity of the wheel bases on K&C items. This does not mean they will not purchase, but, as they are they are allowed to comment on the negatives. I have seen on here many issues about accuracy involving detail etc the most recent being the FW but, as I said they will all sell out for sure.

I have just raised a point about a FL panzer III and it was like blasphomy which, I find unecessary. accuracy and detail does not always have to be mirrored in increase in prices as has been seen by recent makers.

At the end of the day just because lots of people buy one manufacturers products does not mean that everything is fine and, on the whole I think many collectors etc just are happy that products are being released.

It is a very interesting issue
Mitch

Well yes, if I sell toy soldiers for a living and if someone has issues with the products I sell, then I want to know what those issues are.

Makes sense does it not?

Why would that line of thought be confusing to you?

 

[uksubs]

Well yes, if I sell toy soldiers for a living and if someone has issues with the products I sell, then I want to know what those issues are.

Makes sense does it not?

Why would that line of thought be confusing to you?

As I find your post's to me are very aggressive & now we all know the reason why
what I find very odd you not once posted anything about detail of armour of any company but you sell a wide range

 

[Warrior]

As I find your post's to me are very aggressive & now we all know the reason why
what I find very odd you not once posted anything about detail of armour of any company but you sell a wide range

Sorry if you find the tone of my posts aggressive.

I am trying to get to the root of you issues with 1/30th scale armor.

You started this thread, not me.

Know the reason why? What, that I sell toy soldiers, that's no big secret, I don't get your point.

As far as the detail on the items I sell; I've already stated you are not going to get the same level of detail on a resin vehicle than on a plastic/metal vehicle.

So comparing K & C to Figarti or Collectors Showcase to First Legion is apples to hand grenades.

For the price in this country (I can't control what you pay in the Uk, talk to your elected officials or the Royal Family or whomever you have to), K & C makes very nice vehicles, the sales numbers for myself and all other dealers speak volumes for that. Someone likes them or else myself and the rest of the dealers wouldn't be selling the volumes of them that we do.

Figarti and First Legion make more detailed vehicles because the material they use allows that. They are very nice in their own right, Figarti has really stepped up the offers the past year or so, I do very well with their vehicles.

Same with First Legion; the fan base for their vehicles grows with each new release.

Collectors Showcase has really stepped it up too, they make some very nice vehicles and some great subjects as well.

21st Century and Forces of Valor; 21st Century is out of business, perhaps because they sold their vehicles for far less than they should have to begin with. Forces of Valor has slowed to a crawl with their new releases.

Any other questions?

 

[Phantom Warrior]

As I find your post's to me are very aggressive & now we all know the reason why
what I find very odd you not once posted anything about detail of armour of any company but you sell a wide range

As a collector of many manufacturer's products, I have no trouble commenting on the detail of products by those manufacturers. If I was a dealer for several manufacturers, like George is, and that is certainly no secret, why would you expect him to make negative comments on what he is selling??? That would make no sense at all.

Terry

 

[uksubs]

I paid £50.00 for this Minichamps 1/35 metal King tiger tank & it comes with photo etched parts

 

[Spitfrnd]

Where have I told them where they are not nice. I have made a prediction based on several years of experience. I am, of course, happy to be wrong and claim no infallibility like others

When you are dealing with small companies such as are prevalent in our hobby, criticizing the man is tantamount to criticizing the company as they have built something out of nothing. For them it is their work product and life. I have seen this here and in my professional life where we have purchased and sold small companies. It is quite different with large companies where there are vast numbers of owners or shareholders but quite different with small companies.

Well I am not sure what you don't understand. Criticizing the individual would be not nice in my view unless you have some personal experience to justify you remarks so if you are saying that criticizing the product is the equivalent I don't think it is much of a leap to say you are saying those comments are not nice.

I understand your point on small companies but I think it goes back to the simple rule of how you phrase your criticism. No doubt there are many observations here about many companies that cross the line but I still agree with Dave. A company that makes a product must expect that it will be open to critical comment and one who owns such a company, however small, is best served maintaining the distinction between themselves and what they make. In any event, criticism should be fair and not mean spirited or frivolous. So to me it is the nature of the criticism that is important, no matter what the size.

 

[uksubs]

photo of Tamiya + minichamps king tiger's 1/35 scale , Dragon 1/35 armour has even better paint jobs but all mine are boxed up

 

[uksubs]

Sorry if you find the tone of my posts aggressive.

I am trying to get to the root of you issues with 1/30th scale armor.

You started this thread, not me.

Know the reason why? What, that I sell toy soldiers, that's no big secret, I don't get your point.

As far as the detail on the items I sell; I've already stated you are not going to get the same level of detail on a resin vehicle than on a plastic/metal vehicle.

So comparing K & C to Figarti or Collectors Showcase to First Legion is apples to hand grenades.

For the price in this country (I can't control what you pay in the Uk, talk to your elected officials or the Royal Family or whomever you have to), K & C makes very nice vehicles, the sales numbers for myself and all other dealers speak volumes for that. Someone likes them or else myself and the rest of the dealers wouldn't be selling the volumes of them that we do.

Figarti and First Legion make more detailed vehicles because the material they use allows that. They are very nice in their own right, Figarti has really stepped up the offers the past year or so, I do very well with their vehicles.

Same with First Legion; the fan base for their vehicles grows with each new release.

Collectors Showcase has really stepped it up too, they make some very nice vehicles and some great subjects as well.

21st Century and Forces of Valor; 21st Century is out of business, perhaps because they sold their vehicles for far less than they should have to begin with. Forces of Valor has slowed to a crawl with their new releases.

Any other questions?

Thanks for your nice reply George

 

[IXEC]

Quote...[ He's like a hit and run driver who leaves everyone else to clean up the mess ]

Ah....now I'm being called a Public Menace....

What can I say, except that....it reminds me..... of a quote...

"By all which, instead of being discouraged, they are fifty times more violently bent upon prosecuting their schemes, driven equally on by hope and despair; that as for himself, being not of an enterprising sprit, he was content to go on in the old forms, to live in the houses his ancestors had built, and act as they did in every part of life without innovation. That, some few other persons of quality and gentry had done the same, but were looked on with an eye of contempt and ill-will, as enemies to art, ignorant, and ill commonwealth's-men, preferring their own ease and sloth before the general improvement of their country."

 

[Warrior]

Thanks for your nice reply George

No problem, sorry if you misread my tone, no harm intended.

The pictures you show of your models are beautiful, they all look great.

Minichamps is another company that made nice diecast vehicles, they were hot as a pistol for awhile, then they fell off the grid, same thing with Dragon, who made diecast versions of some of their models.

Again, very nice, but those companies have basically thrown in the towel.

It is the same in the 1/72nd scale diecast market, of which I am a collector as you know; Dragon has cooled off, MRC is dead in the water, IXO is gone, on and on it goes.

It is very expensive to make these finely detailed diecast vehicles in the end I guess is the answer.............................

 

[Warrior]

Quote...[ He's like a hit and run driver who leaves everyone else to clean up the mess ]

Ah....now I'm being called a Public Menace....

What can I say, except that....it reminds me..... of a verse...

"By all which, instead of being discouraged, they are fifty times more violently bent upon prosecuting their schemes, driven equally on by hope and despair; that as for himself, being not of an enterprising sprit, he was content to go on in the old forms, to live in the houses his ancestors had built, and act as they did in every part of life without innovation. That, some few other persons of quality and gentry had done the same, but were looked on with an eye of contempt and ill-will, as enemies to art, ignorant, and ill commonwealth's-men, preferring their own ease and sloth before the general improvement of their country."

That's great Paul; but you still haven't answered the one step forward, two steps back point you raised.

Can I get that verse on a bumper sticker or a teeshirt by the way?

 

[jazzeum]

Well I am not sure what you don't understand. Criticizing the individual would be not nice in my view unless you have some personal experience to justify you remarks so if you are saying that criticizing the product is the equivalent I don't think it is much of a leap to say you are saying those comments are not nice.

I understand your point on small companies but I think it goes back to the simple rule of how you phrase your criticism. No doubt there are many observations here about many companies that cross the line but I still agree with Dave. A company that makes a product must expect that it will be open to critical comment and one who owns such a company, however small, is best served maintaining the distinction between themselves and what they make. In any event, criticism should be fair and not mean spirited or frivolous. So to me it is the nature of the criticism that is important, no matter what the size.

I don't think we're far off on agreeing. However, with small companies, whether it's K & C, Thomas Gunn, First Legion or what have you, maintaining the distinction between themselves and what they make is difficult although not impossible since the company is probably their life.

What probably got me annoyed is the one step foward, two step backwards but I like Andy comments from a person who has also called one of his products cartoonish, which I think is mean spirited. Maybe the products is inaccurate (and I would defer to you Bill on this probably more than anybody else on this Forum) but cartoonish is crossing the line, at least in my opinion.

Regards,