Corona virus (2 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
According to NAT GEO more people have died in 4 months than the Vietnam War (58,220) and World War I (53,402). If the death toll exceeds 100K then more people would have died in a year that both wars combined. I think we are going to exceed 100K if not more and I think it will happen in this year 2020. Frankly, these numbers are stunning and in the short time that I checked out of the forum, to today, this is a sobering reality.

John,

I think that NAT GEO gave you a bum steer on the numbers for WWI. Same deal with the 100K exceeding both wars combined. I can't believe that they'd float "data" like that to the public and expect to get away with it.

casualties-by-war_1.jpg


-Moe
 
Last edited:
John,

I think that NAT GEO gave you a bum steer on the numbers for WWI. Same deal with the 100K exceeding both wars combined. I can't believe that they'd float "data" like that to the public and expect to get away with it.

casualties-by-war_1.jpg


-Moe


YUUUUP Bad Data and Bad Press strikes again. As I have said time and time again, when something is "published", there is a mantra - "never let the facts get in the way of a great headline".

Folks, if you have not figured it out by now, regardless of the defenders of the press on this forum (That is not a personal shot, everyone has their own opinion), NEARLY every article published today has an agenda and it DOES NOT have to do with informing the public.

Each person has to decide their own comfort level and they should act accordingly without repercussions from the other side.

The numbers I really want to see are the effects of States opening up, I don't want to see headlines screaming Doom and Destruction to those States b/c IMO that is exactly WHY we are in this mess to begin with, BAD DATA leads to BAD PLANNING leads to CATASTROPHIC MESS on all fronts.

People may not agree with me and that is fine, but I find FACTS are hard to beat.

Regarding numbers being reported, I would like to give you an anecdote about that from my own State - Maryland. IF you believe numbers, today Baltimore City is showing nearly the same amount of cases as Anne Arundel County which is fairly RURAL in comparison. SO, who do you believe? I personally think something is fishy about that number. Additionally, we have lag in reporting, today cases jumped largest % yet hospitilizations went down significantly. I can spin that a 100 ways depending on the audience, see what I am getting at. We will never know the True story here until this is past us and we have actual data that is reliable.


TD
 
I agree with Tom that the news MEDIA today cannot be trusted. Accurate reporting of facts is sorely lacking. I would very much like to find a trustworthy source for the facts, particularly the numbers, on a local, State, Federal and worldwide: confirmed cases, hospitalizations, deaths, and survival percentage. I would also like to know that are leaders are being provided with the accurate information, so their decisions can be based on the facts and the science. Believe it or not, here in New York, we feel like we are getting the correct information in the governor's and mayor's daily briefings, something I would not have believed possible 6 months ago. On a worldwide and nationwide level, however, I do not have this confidence, particularly with regard to the reporting in China. I am also hearing contradictory reports on the science. It would be nice to have all of the relevant scientific data, and the opinions of the knowledgeable scientists, fully vetted and provided to the public and the leadership so an educated approach to addressing the pandemic can be adopted and implemented.

And regardless of the accuracy of the numbers reported concerning WWI, this disease has cost hundreds of thousands of lives worldwide, many, if not most of whom, would not have died otherwise. To anybody who wants to minimize these deaths, all I can say is if its your son, or nephew, or spouse, or sibling or friend who died, I think you might have a different view. Whether or not it is the best approach remains to be seen, but the social distancing and shut-down employed in New York State has proved effective so far. We are well past the top of the curve, our hospitals have not been overwhelmed, and the number of deaths is a small-fraction of the best-case estimates for statewide deaths from the virus. New cases, deaths and hospitalizations have been going down each day for a couple of weeks now. If a better approach is out there, lets adopt it, but I hope we do not abandon an approach that is working until we have something better in place. That's just my two cents.
 
No one is trying to minimize the deaths caused by this virus but many doctors feel that many might have died by other issues they had but brought on maybe faster by the virus.I just lost a 45 year old cousin who they thought had a heart attack but actually had a blood clot in is neck that went to his brain.Now it doesn't make me happier that he died this way than by the virus.Let not minimize all the people who die everyday by other ways.
Mark
 
The situation in Qld / Oz has been interesting as quite different from UK, Italy, NY etc. Overall Oz has done quite well. I think now about 83 deaths with average age 79. Many from cruises and in NSW a problem in aged homes.

Qld which is a very large state with about 5.2m people has had about 1,030 cases (over 3 months). 6 deaths of which 4 happened in Qld. Those four had all returned from cruises. The other 2 were Qlders who died in NSW hospitals.

Restaurants and pubs closed for weeks now. Retail was not specifically closed but people were discouraged from going out which meant a lot of retail closed anyway.

Big issue here is when are the schools going to be open again as this is causing a lot of problems.

Big thing now is encouraging people to download an app on phone. If come down with the virus then can trace who been in contact with for 15 minutes and notify them. So a Govt app hosted by Amazon. Heard the Prime Minister say if you want to go to the pub download the app. Not made it compulsory yet but seem very keen to get us to download it. My app thingy looks broken to me and never been an app guy.
 
The situation in Qld / Oz has been interesting as quite different from UK, Italy, NY etc. Overall Oz has done quite well. I think now about 83 deaths with average age 79. Many from cruises and in NSW a problem in aged homes.

Qld which is a very large state with about 5.2m people has had about 1,030 cases (over 3 months). 6 deaths of which 4 happened in Qld. Those four had all returned from cruises. The other 2 were Qlders who died in NSW hospitals.

Restaurants and pubs closed for weeks now. Retail was not specifically closed but people were discouraged from going out which meant a lot of retail closed anyway.

Big issue here is when are the schools going to be open again as this is causing a lot of problems.

Big thing now is encouraging people to download an app on phone. If come down with the virus then can trace who been in contact with for 15 minutes and notify them. So a Govt app hosted by Amazon. Heard the Prime Minister say if you want to go to the pub download the app. Not made it compulsory yet but seem very keen to get us to download it. My app thingy looks broken to me and never been an app guy.

I completely understand anyone hesitating to down load an App that is designed to track your movements under the guise its there to protect you. What perfect timing to roll out such a nice piece of surveillance tech that most folks would normally be reluctant to do so.

We've got the same software installed on our work I-phones and in our vehicles all being used as a safety measure. But its a double edged sword when your employer or whoever's got access to that intel from the App who can use it as a performance tool against you.

I personally would be very cautious about allowing anyone free access to my movements via my personal cell-phone.

Next thing we'll be all asked to be micro-chipped.
 
All,

I ordered not one, but two Margaritas to go. Plus, I had a coupon for "buy one enchilada plate get one free". The enchiladas were great, but the Margarita lacked the salted rim and I added a little OJ to take the bite out of the tequila. Oh and another thing receiving a margarita in a soda cup was just wrong. The verdict: won't be ordering a to-go margarita again and-AND you have to ask for Patron or they will serve you the cheap stuff.

Ivanmoe's post on recorded deaths during war was a sobering read because the vast differential on reporting. Good job on putting that out there because your right...I should have double checked. However, the current death toll numbers in such a short amount of time IS shocking. If this is the way it goes (i.e. 40K deaths a month) we will exceed Ivans posting from World War I on down...in a year! Again, in the US that is and world wide it will be worse.

I don't like talking about numbers so serendipitous, but I can't fathom such a loss of life from a virus. I am in the middle of The Great Pandemic of 1918 book and I have a suspicion that-that pandemic was much worse than this one...globally. Coupled with the fact that World War I was coinciding with the Pandemic. Good lord can you imagine? I can't and the reading of the book goes on.

John from Texas

PS: I tipped 50%
 
Good morning all,

On April the 6th the US death toll from COVID was at 10,764 and as of today the toll is 63,871. Which means in 24 days 53,107 Americans have passed.

The last time I checked the world death toll was April the 1st which was at 45,497 and I rechecked today and the world wide total is 233,688. Which translates to 188,191 deaths have occurred in one month due to COVID-19.

According to NAT GEO more people have died in 4 months than the Vietnam War (58,220) and World War I (53,402). If the death toll exceeds 100K then more people would have died in a year that both wars combined. I think we are going to exceed 100K if not more and I think it will happen in this year 2020. Frankly, these numbers are stunning and in the short time that I checked out of the forum, to today, this is a sobering reality.

Now, lets look at it like this. Can you imagine going to war and within four months you lost 63,871 soldiers? Let alone 45,497 of those deaths happened in 24 days. The reaction would be absolute shock at the amount of lives lost in such a short period of time. We would question the why? How could our military sustain so many casualties in such a short period of time? Were they not equipped properly? Were they not trained properly? How is it that the greatest military in the history of the world was dealt such a sever blow? Where are the Generals and Admirals in all this? Who sent them into battle against an enemy with no intelligence to know what they were up against? Where is the President in all this? How did he let this happen on his watch? What was the plan IF this were to happen?

The answer is no; no our medical personnel were not prepared for this nor the states nor the Federal Government. No they were not equipped properly nor trained properly. And no, we as a people were not prepared for this.

The answer is yes; yes we had intelligence that this unseen enemy was ruthless and a threat to National Security. Yes, it wasn't taken seriously from the get go and yes, it is shock to our way of life.

The answer is of course the we as a society would not be able to stomach so many deaths and YES our leadership has failed us.

There was no plan. Hell there wasn't even a contingency plan. For as much as we prepare for war through training and funding our military for "normal" world wide threats, nobody planned for a threat that had no bullets or geo-political agenda. With the exception of a few scientist and doctors who said "you need to listen to me here". To which nobody did. This virus is a stone cold killer that stops at nothing in its path and does not give two hoots how many bombs you got. Or what country, political system or religious beliefs you may have. It is truly a alien force that is attacking and killing the human race with impunity.

I know it may sound like some dystopian novel that I am talking about here but it is not. This is the reality of what we are living in and the fragility of our society is being tested every day, hour and minute. Patience is at premium. The will to "win" is so overpowering that is blinding our leaders into relenting to the worship of the almighty dollar. Some politicians have clearly said that they would sacrifice lives for the "good" of the economy. This "oh well" attitude clearly shows how heartless and ignorant some people in the face of adversity and use such quips to justify their reckless (if not feckless) decisions.

In a crisis the easiest thing to do is point fingers and lay blame to give an answer as to "why" something happened. And sadly racist tendencies and xenophobia are simplest of solutions for simpletons. They disgust me and unfortunately they have been and will continue to be around till Kingdom come and when this is all over those same simpletons who survived unscathed on the backs of the brave will say "see, it was nuthin". They are cowards...the lot of them.

Its never too late to make a plan, regroup and re-take the hill. However, when your Captain is in his quarters looking at himself in the mirror and admiring how good he looks in uniform versus taking the helm, the ship sails aimlessly and the moral of the crew suffers. The result? One long boat ride to no where.

I wish I could close my eyes and wake up tomorrow knowing that every health care worker had all the ammunition they needed to fight the battle of the day, just like a soldier would. I wish IV bags were not on restriction so my wife could get her chemo medicines on a drip versus an injection. I wish my kids could walk the stage for their high school graduation and I wish I could take pictures of them for prom all deck out in gowns and tuxedos. I wish I could go to the movies and watch a good flick. Eat some popcorn and have a cold one. I wish I could go shopping at the mall for Mothers Day and then go to Mothers Day brunch. I wish I could see all of you at the Toy Solider convention. I wish a lot of things, but for right now all of that is wishful thinking and frankly I am content pouring concrete in my backyard for yet another summer project.

Its going to be 90 degrees today in San Antonio and you can still get a Margarita through the drive-thru. After todays backyard work, I think I will get a Margarita to go...take a pic...and post it here.

John from Texas

Hi John,
Very interesting post on Casualties due to this bloody virus...However when it comes to sickness versus battlefield casualties this virus is just a ‘beginner’...However...

On the first day of the Battle of the Somme in 1916, the British Army suffered over 59,000 casualties of which almost 20,000 were fatal! This was, and still is, the greatest loss ever suffered by British Forces in their entire history.

As for ‘pointing fingers’ you may have a point...Personally speaking, I don’t need to point any fingers anywhere ...Living and working where I do...I have a pretty good idea exactly where it came from!

All the best and stay well,
Andy.
 
I can't wait for the next phase in the virus battle. The one where people argue they don't have to take the vaccine because they are healthy etc. Less than 50% take the flu vaccine. That's going to be fun. They should let someone sue if they get the virus or flu and the source can be traced to some numbskull who refuses to get the vaccine.
 
Ivanmoe's post on recorded deaths during war was a sobering read because the vast differential on reporting. Good job on putting that out there because your right...I should have double checked. However, the current death toll numbers in such a short amount of time IS shocking. If this is the way it goes (i.e. 40K deaths a month) we will exceed Ivans posting from World War I on down...in a year! Again, in the US that is and world wide it will be worse.

John,

I hesitated to even mention the discrepancy for that exact reason, knowing full well that the number of COVID-19 casualties will eventually eclipse those associated with the different conflicts cited on the graph. For that matter, what about a decade's worth of influenza or opioid overdose statistics? Way too many folks are being hospitalized and succumbing to the Coronavirus to talk empty smack about it, which is why I believe that politicians and the media ought to be more judicious in their exposition of "facts" regarding its particulars. And I agree that this is likely gonna be much worse in the rest of the world, than here in the USA.

-Moe
 
I can't wait for the next phase in the virus battle. The one where people argue they don't have to take the vaccine because they are healthy etc. Less than 50% take the flu vaccine. That's going to be fun. They should let someone sue if they get the virus or flu and the source can be traced to some numbskull who refuses to get the vaccine.

I have posted this before, but I think it needs to be posted again. What do I do in my case - I am 46, I have never taken a flu shot in my entire lifetime and I lead a lifestyle that has to be labeled as "Risk" (I.E. I stay in hotels at least 100 nights per year and fly at least 130 plus days). To my knowledge, I have never been diagnosed with the flu. I have had this exact conversation with my physician, same one for the last decade plus and his comments are the same as mine - he is not confident in recommending that I ever take a flu shot. I don't understand nor pretend to understand immunity, anti bodies, etc. I don't, I have always worked off my own common sense I guess and for me, it puts me in a big bind on this one. I know Covid is not the flu, so I am inclined to think about the vaccine, but I am not 100% sold. I think I personally will be investigating the anti bodies test b/c I want to know if I was exposed and never knew it or had it and never knew it. I think that will be an interesting test to see whether a vaccine is necessary in my case. I just don't know.

Am I a numbskull for not taking the flu vaccine - not according to my doctor. I think you have to remember that everyone is very different medically and that is being proven by this virus every day. Time will tell on this and I am not rushing to get a vaccine when available at the nearest clinic, I will be consulting my doctor.

TD
 
Just found out today my friend here in MA Brian McKeown has passed away form the Covid 19 virus.

Brian was an avid 25/25mm wargamer, he had over 20,000 figures, he decided afew years ago to display them in dioramas in his basement; Greeks vs Persians, a castle siege, Chinese vs Mongols, French and Indian War, Waterloo, Aspern Essling, Indian Mutiny and the James gang raid on Boot Hill.

Brian was a brilliant man, well versed on military history, he also was a published author, he originally lived in the UK.

I started in 2017 assisting him and his wife with the sale of his collection, it filled two cargo vans, he had begun to suffer from the early stages of Dementia, so he decided it was time. His condition worsened, he went into assisted living in February and he passed away in April.

He's now the second person I knew personally who has passed away from this, first my 94 year old uncle Harry, now Brian, both of whom were in assisted living.

Gods speed to both of them……………...
 
I completely understand anyone hesitating to down load an App that is designed to track your movements under the guise its there to protect you. What perfect timing to roll out such a nice piece of surveillance tech that most folks would normally be reluctant to do so.

We've got the same software installed on our work I-phones and in our vehicles all being used as a safety measure. But its a double edged sword when your employer or whoever's got access to that intel from the App who can use it as a performance tool against you.

I personally would be very cautious about allowing anyone free access to my movements via my personal cell-phone.

Next thing we'll be all asked to be micro-chipped.

I don't see it as an issue, often it's people with something to hide that are fanatics about such things. If you have Location activated on your Smartphone you are already being tracked, if you pay for products by a Card, yep you are being tracked. Personally I wouldn't advise other people not to use the App as the Aussie Government will continue to maintain some degree of distancing and isolation laws until most people use the App, or so they said.
 
Hi John,
Very interesting post on Casualties due to this bloody virus...However when it comes to sickness versus battlefield casualties this virus is just a ‘beginner’...However...

On the first day of the Battle of the Somme in 1916, the British Army suffered over 59,000 casualties of which almost 20,000 were fatal! This was, and still is, the greatest loss ever suffered by British Forces in their entire history.

As for ‘pointing fingers’ you may have a point...Personally speaking, I don’t need to point any fingers anywhere ...Living and working where I do...I have a pretty good idea exactly where it came from!

All the best and stay well,
Andy.

Fair comment Andy, however we should keep in mind that Soldiers that died of the Spanish Flu during the First World War were a significant percentage of the Casualty List(s).
 
The latest model is now predicting about 130k deaths in the US. That would basically double the current number! If that's accurate, the east and west coasts are kaput for the rest of this year since that is where most of the cases have been reported. Those models may be not 100% accurate but they are pretty good at reporting trends. And that means more of the same for the foreseeable future in many places.
 
The latest model is now predicting about 130k deaths in the US. That would basically double the current number! If that's accurate, the east and west coasts are kaput for the rest of this year since that is where most of the cases have been reported. Those models may be not 100% accurate but they are pretty good at reporting trends. And that means more of the same for the foreseeable future in many places.


Well, again, data has not exactly been the most reliable since this whole mess began, if you recall, they originally predicted 3M deaths. No amount of social distancing rules in place can account for that discrepancy thus far. I will wait and see before I rely, believe or even give credence to any models reported thus far. They all have sucked badly.

TD
 
What is it about 250,000 worldwide and most could have been prevented?I know a lot were older and would have died from other medical issues but a lot would still be here.It makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it.:mad:
Mark
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top