COVID the 3rd (1 Viewer)

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You just don't know what to believe. I don't think we will know the whole truth in our lifetimes. One thing is certain and that is there are a lot of people out there with their own agendas.
Mark

Mark,

I truly don't understand why there is still so much confusion regarding this virus. In the early stages, even the experts weren't sure. However there is now a lot of reliable, genuine and free information on the internet. You just have to sift the wheat from the chaff.

We know it doesn't have much effect on most people under say 60 years, but they can pass it on to someone older which may well kill them. Masks won't stop the virus if you're close to an infected person for too long, but they're better than nothing. Distance is more important than masks. The more distance from people, the less chance of catching it. Personally I would recommend staying at least 3 meters from people in public areas, and reduce the time in close contact with people.

If a vaccine can stop it's transmission or at least minimize the number of infections, that's surely a good thing imo. Don't you think? Of course there are people and companies that will make money from a vaccine, but there's nothing to stop anyone investing in said companies, obviously there's also some risk of loosing your money. On the other side there's plenty of people that make money from being Anti-vaccinations. However you can easily weed them out by checking their background, see Del Bigtree in my link below.
 
It seems like I might be in the minority but above all else I have held out for a vaccine from the very start of this pandemic.

I know social distancing, masks etc. have slowed the virus but to me they have always been the equivalent of slowing down by taking your foot off off the accelerator, if you really want to stop you need good, reliable brakes (a vaccine).
 
Here we are, over 700 posts on the Third thread of Covid19 and I can't see anyone changing their opinion whatever evidence is produced. Personally I can't see any point in continuing this discussion as all the thread seems to do is increase disharmony on the forum.
 
Here we are, over 700 posts on the Third thread of Covid19 and I can't see anyone changing their opinion whatever evidence is produced. Personally I can't see any point in continuing this discussion as all the thread seems to do is increase disharmony on the forum.

Most people who have posted on this thread believe in the efficacy of masks, social distancing and a vaccine. There are a few who don’t. Basically, it’s a reflection of society, where some disharmony already exists. The best we can do is point out what is factual and what is not and hope that people seriously look at what we say. Whether they do or not is entirely their decision. The old saw about taking a horse to water comes to mind.
 
Over 2,000 people are now dying each day. It's interesting how the human mind works. If that many people had been dying earlier in the year when this all started, there would have been widespread panic. Now it's just the norm. Most people are going about their business like there is nothing going on. People can become very complacent. I can understand the desire to get back to normal with school and work, but the purely recreational activities like going to the beach, a ball game, or visiting someone over the holidays is just reckless. No one of this generation has had to live under anything but normal circumstances with no sacrifice. They can't be inconvenienced. A very self absorbed generation. The politicians get a lot of the blame for arbitrary restrictions that make no sense and cause more division than good. Fortunately, the vaccine is coming in the next few weeks.


There'll get worn down over time as it finally registers that Covid isn't going away. As long as one person has it , then it will continue to be passed on. Vaccinne is no pancea. Whether it's their job, their family, their ability to travel. The impacts will continue to be felt at an individual level.
 
It seems like I might be in the minority but above all else I have held out for a vaccine from the very start of this pandemic.

I know social distancing, masks etc. have slowed the virus but to me they have always been the equivalent of slowing down by taking your foot off off the accelerator, if you really want to stop you need good, reliable brakes (a vaccine).

I have two concerns with a vaccine; one, how long will it be efficient for and two, what if any side effects will there be down the road as no one can say for sure on either point.

My main concern is it becomes like a flu shot and you need it every year; can you imagine?

330,000 million COVID shots per year in the US alone?

I really hope it does not come to that, time will tell.
 
There'll get worn down over time as it finally registers that Covid isn't going away. As long as one person has it , then it will continue to be passed on. Vaccine is no pancea. Whether it's their job, their family, their ability to travel. The impacts will continue to be felt at an individual level.

I consistently see statements, not just with regard to Covid, but concerning disease in general, that "Vaccine is no pancea." I think this comes from a combination of the influence of the "anti-vaxers" (whose position, as far as I have been able to discern, is based completely on anecdotal statistics and completely debunked pseudo-science which is not at all generally accepted in the medical community or supported by any peer-reviewed studies), and people's reaction to Flu-shots (because people who take them sometimes get other strains of the Flu that the Flu-shot does not defend against). Growing up, I had 100% confidence in vaccines, and for good reason. I knew people a generation older than me, including my good friend, the late Gordon Neilson of King & Country, who had contracted Polio just before Jonas Salk developed the Polio Vaccine, and who had difficulty walking their entire lives, but literally none of my contempories contracted Polio, which basically ceased to exist because of the Polio Vaccine. Any number of other diseases which had long killed or crippled people also disappeared during my generation. But then, at some point in the 1980's, suddenly people believed that vaccines caused autism. The doctor who come up with this dubious proposition, the leader of the "Anti-Vaxxer" movement, could not point to any scientific evidence that supported his position, and eventually lost his license to practice medicine. Despite the complete absence of scientific evidence to back up the "anti-vaxxer" position, certain celebreties caught onto the idea, and convinced a good portion of the population not to vaccinate their children. Now diseases like Polio, which had completely disappeared, are making a comeback, and people facing a pandemic like Covid don't believe that a vaccine is the solution, and declare, before the vaccine has even been put into limited use, that they will not take it, and it won't be a solution. Don't get me wrong, as someone who does not have a high-risk factor, I am not rushing out to take the vaccine. I want to see it used on millions of people for at least 6 months (so, if it goes into use in December, 2020, I will wait until May, 2021), to make sure the unusually quickly developed and approved vaccine is truly safe, but at that point, if there are not dangerous side-effects, I will take it, as will my wife and (if approved for teenagers) my children. The way I see it, if it is truly 95% effective, is also effective in preventing the spread, and, even if you get the virus, the symptoms are significantly milder, as has been reported, it will, in fact, be a panacea for Covid, which will disappear very quickly once the majority of people are vaccinated. If 95 people out of 100 cannot get or pass along the virus upon exposure, and the remaining 5 people cannot pass it along to 95 out of 100 people they encounter, the number of people who get the virus will drop precipitously. Additionally, if those who get it have only minor sympoms, hospitals will no longer be in danger of being overwhelmed, and deaths from the virus should virtually disappear. If the vaccine is truly 95% effective, like Polio, Covid should no longer pose a significant threat.

That being said, governments need to learn from this pandemic, as there will be others in future. Once the crisis is behind us, we need to see what the most effective approaches to the virus have been, and create a nationwide (and hopefully an international) plan to address the next pandemic.
 
I, for one, will take the vaccine as soon as it’s available. Since I’m over 65, I will receive priority but may still have to wait until well into the first quarter of 2021. The proposed allocation is as follows:

First in line are health care workers (roughly 20 million people). Since Pfizer will only have that many doses this year, other groups will have to wait.

Second, essential workers (roughly 87 million people).

Third, people with underlying medical conditions, approximately 100 million people.

Fourth, people who don’t fall into one of the above categories and are 65 and over.

According to Dr. Fauci, people not in one of those categories should be able to get a vaccine in the second quarter.

The specific allocations are made by the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, better known as ACIP. They are scheduled to meet next Tuesday to vote on the allocations.

See the following release from the CDC, https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations-process.html

Louis, you may have no choice to wait until May but Alec may be able to get it sooner.
 
I'm 65 but I just want to wait to see if there are any side effects before I take the vaccine. I think the reason a lot of people are scared to take it is the speed which they have been developed and are afraid that they cut corners and will have side effects. Only 2 of us (out of 30) in my department at work have gotten the flu shot.
Mark
 
Most people who have posted on this thread believe in the efficacy of masks, social distancing and a vaccine. There are a few who don’t. Basically, it’s a reflection of society, where some disharmony already exists. The best we can do is point out what is factual and what is not and hope that people seriously look at what we say. Whether they do or not is entirely their decision. The old saw about taking a horse to water comes to mind.

Brad,
I agree completely. I would say nearly 99.99% of the people I know, family, interact with etc believe in masks and distancing and vaccine. I also will take this vaccine as soon as it is available to me. As it has been described and all I have tried to educate myself and read, they believe it will be a vaccine in the strains of a polio, smallpox, etc meaning that hopefully it will be a gamechanger and we will see normalcy return. That is gold with me.

Like I have always said, you can't fix stupid and in my opinion as harsh as that is, if someone told you a vaccine was 95% effective against the current disease pandemic, it would seem to me the prudent thing to do is take the vaccine. I also don't think there is any issue with waiting a month or two, for me and my age group I will be forced to wait, so if there are any issues, then I should be able to see them and make an informed decision. Hopefully none and it is 95% effective in practice too.

TD
 
Most people who have posted on this thread believe in the efficacy of masks, social distancing and a vaccine. There are a few who don’t. Basically, it’s a reflection of society, where some disharmony already exists. The best we can do is point out what is factual and what is not and hope that people seriously look at what we say. Whether they do or not is entirely their decision. The old saw about taking a horse to water comes to mind.

Thanks Brad,

Unlike 'Scale' debates and other less important topics that have caused disharmony in the past, this virus is costing thousands of lives.

I will continue to post on the thread and hope that members with 'alternate' views will give more consideration to what they post in future.
 
Should you have a Vaccination?

That seems to be common thought with members.

As mentioned earlier I recently had a flu vaccination that covers Four Influenza Viruses, the current being:

[h=2]
  • A/Brisbane/02/2018 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus;
  • B/Washington/02/2019-like (B/Victoria lineage) virus;
  • A/South Australia/34/2019 (H3N2)-like virus; and
  • B/Phuket/3073/2013-like (B/Yamagata lineage) virus.
[/h]
In Australia they update the targeted Viruses every 6 months.

I'm going to Get a Covid19 (SARS-CoV-2) Vaccination as soon as I can. I had No reactions to my recent Flu shot/vaccination and have faith that the new Covid Vaccine will be safe. On balance, the chances of this Virus killing me is Far Higher than any Risks from the Vaccination.

FYI, the Vaccine they used on me was kept in a Refridgerator, temperature range 2 to 8 Degrees Celsius (36 to 46 F). Flu Vaccines usually don't respond well to Freezing temperatures and are thrown out if they freeze. I can't see how the new Covid Vaccine will be any different, but I'm no expert, so not Gospel at this stage, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
 
I'm 65 but I just want to wait to see if there are any side effects before I take the vaccine. I think the reason a lot of people are scared to take it is the speed which they have been developed and are afraid that they cut corners and will have side effects. Only 2 of us (out of 30) in my department at work have gotten the flu shot.
Mark

Mark...only 15% of your work group gets the flu shot?
 
Since you’re 65, you should also get Prevnar 13, which is a pneumococcal vaccine, also made by Pfizer.
 
I think my cousins get that.I'll ask my doctor about it.Thanks Brad.
Mark
 
I wasn’t intending to post on this thread again but a number recent comments warrant a response.

It fascinates and also saddens me somewhat how some on here choose to undermine any alternative views by labelling those persons as conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxers and a host of other demeaning references in order to undermine or discredit those with differing opinions.

While I may not agree with much that has been posted in this thread, I certainly haven’t resorted to discrediting others in the same fashion.

Last I looked freedom of speech was a basic human right as was what I decide to stick in my body or in this case what I’ve decided not to.

If you have a problem with that, then that is your issue not mine.
 
I wasn’t intending to post on this thread again but a number recent comments warrant a response.

It fascinates and also saddens me somewhat how some on here choose to undermine any alternative views by labelling those persons as conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxers and a host of other demeaning references in order to undermine or discredit those with differing opinions.

While I may not agree with much that has been posted in this thread, I certainly haven’t resorted to discrediting others in the same fashion.

Last I looked freedom of speech was a basic human right as was what I decide to stick in my body or in this case what I’ve decided not to.

If you have a problem with that, then that is your issue not mine.

Todd,

Sorry if I caused offence to you or any other person that has reservations about being vaccinated. Please treat any of my comments about conspiracy theorists as being aimed at some of the links provided by some forum members, I did not intend to label actual Forum members with the Conspiracy Theorist tag.

I note that very few forum members say they will get the Covid19 shot or even regular Flu shots. That is for each person to decide, my recent Flu shot was only the Third Flu shot in my life as I rarely get the Flu. I just had this jab to visit my Mother in Law in a nursing home as they won't allow visitors that can't provide proof of a Flu vaccination.

However I feel the vaccination issue will be important in how we fight this Virus and hope that people won't be scared of being vaccinated. People will make up their own minds about a vaccination, same as any other life decisions. Personally I try to make my decisions based on known facts, which is why I encourage members to check their sources before posting any links etc.
 
The following links may be of assistance to members.

Confirmation Bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or Values. People tend to unconsciously select information that supports their views, but ignoring non-supportive information. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs.


Confirmation Bias Wiki Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Snopes is a handy site to verify Subjects, Rumors, Memes etc on the Internet

Snopes Link https://www.snopes.com/collections/tall-tales-about-vaccines/
 
I have repeatedly said that some of the lessons learned from the pandemic should carry on long after any vaccine and/or eradication.

I still find it difficult to comprehend we used to simply lined up right next to each other, ignoring personal space and privacy. The same goes for hand washing, it is almost nauseating to think how often people did not wash their hands before all of this.

As for masks? I have never had a problem wearing one and to be honest I never understood those that had a problem with wearing one.

 
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