My JJD Inter-War Aviation Collection (1 Viewer)

[ivanmoe]

Saratoga and Buffalo...hmm...feel stream a of consciousness moment coming on...so...brace yourselves!:wink2:

The Saratoga was famous for a lot of reasons. For instance, the Navy was anxious to leverage interest from the movie industry into the $$$ needed for evolving technology and innovation. An early signal to this effect was the ships role in the making of Hell Divers in 1932:

The film contains footage taken aboard the Sara, but many of the static scenes were shot on a staged deck. I can't help but think of the upper echelons of the TF diorama makers when I see this pic:

As cited on the promotional poster, the film starred Wallace Beery and a young Clark Cable...and of course lots of early USN planes. However, the movie had to be censored to a degree in that important parts of the ship were shielded from view, the arrestor gear for instance. Exactly how the Navy intended to stop an aircraft as it landed was as yet experimental. Consider the pic below, again, from CV-3:

Again, the Navy didn't quite have all this figured out. The strange-looking system above, was discarded about the time that the film was being shot, BTW. A four-wire system that was more akin to modern configurations was subsequently installed. Holllywood helped pay for all this in a time when dollars were mighty short. No bucks, no Buck Rogers!

Geez, but what's Hell Divers this got to do with Buffaloes?

See below...

 

[ivanmoe]

To get Hell Divers completed, Hollywood needed more than just planes from the navy. They needed pilots. Here are some of them with Gable and Beery:

Standing to Gable's immediate right is John "Jimmy" Thach. I won't cite the others, but there are several of the fellas that would go on to become admirals, Thach included. Even at this relatively early point in his career, Thach was a "mover and shaker" in Naval Aviation. It's worth noting that Annapolis grads were discouraged from going into aviation, because there opportunities for advancement were so limited. Aviation was looked upon as a perfect way to "dead-end" ones career. Nonetheless, Thach persevered and took advantage of his role in the filming to bring his mom out:

"Hey mom, wanna meet Clark Gable?" Isn't that great? She must have loved it!

Anyway, back to Thach and VF-6 and Saratoga and...Buffaloes...

In 1939, Thach, still a Lieutenant after 12 years, was assigned to VF-3, the Saratoga's dedicated Fighter Squadron. This was the "Felix the Cat" squadron, that JJ collectors now connect with VF-6. In point of fact, the squadron had simply been renamed. It was the same unit. Thach was to be the squadron's gunnery officer and it was in this role that he began work on "the beam defense maneuver," later know as the Thach Weave.

Initially, Thach and other VF-3 pilots were flying F3F-1 biplanes. However, these were soon replaced with the Brewster F2A-1, the first production of the Buffalo employed by the USN. These early versions of the aircraft were pleasant enough to fly, not being burdened by the weight of armor, self-sealing fuel bladders, and armament of later versions. Still, the landing gear was weak and Thach couldn't wait to get rid of them. This became a particular focus of his efforts after he ground-looped one of them on Saratoga's deck in early 1940:

So, let's just say that the Lieutenant had no use for the Brewster product. He started writing letters and raising all kind of fuss. It was largely through his efforts that the Saratoga and VF-3 would be among the first squadrons to receive the new Grumman Wildcat. Thach would go on to become one of the highest ranking Naval Officers ever to sport Wings of Gold, his stint in Hell Divers and driver of the Brewster Buffalo each a leg on one heck of a voyage!

Phew...I'm exhausted...and where did all these pics come from?:wink2:

-Moe

 

[mestell]

Thanks Moe . . . . . A really interesting read . . . .
:smile2: Mike

 

[Terp152]

All good info Moe, thanks for the movie insights. Thach weave helped even up the odds for the Wildcats against the superior Zero, until the arrival of the Hellcat. Interesting to note the USN rotated their aircrewsite in and out of combat. IJN could not. Thach was working on the Big Blue Blanket tactics at war's end.

Shattered Sword is one of the best accounts of the Pacific War I have read. Chris

 

[Terp152]

Moe, you got me in the mood to see some of the old USN movies. Just ordered Wings of the Navy, Bridges at Toko Ri, and of course Hell Divers. The last will hold me over as I await the delivery of the JJD carrier deck sections (that's the tie in to the thread, :wink2 Chris

 

[ivanmoe]

Moe, you got me in the mood to see some of the old USN movies. Just ordered Wings of the Navy, Bridges at Toko Ri, and of course Hell Divers. The last will hold me over as I await the delivery of the JJD carrier deck sections (that's the tie in to the thread, :wink2 Chris

Chris, you've got some great entertainment on tap.

My favorite from the prewar era is Dive Bomber:

Absolutely love the color photography.

-Moe

 

[Terp152]

Chris, you've got some great entertainment on tap.

My favorite from the prewar era is Dive Bomber:

Absolutely love the color photography.

-Moe

Okay, you (and Al his post was deleted in the reboot) convinced me. WHo can resist the yellow wings in color? :salute:: Chris

 

[lancer]

Okay, you (and Al his post was deleted in the reboot) convinced me. WHo can resist the yellow wings in color? :salute:: Chris

Missed the reboot and couldn't figure out what happened to the post about Dive Bomber. Thanks for clearing that up as I was about to declare myself a geezer with memory problems. :tongue: -- Al

 

[ivanmoe]

Okay, you (and Al his post was deleted in the reboot) convinced me. WHo can resist the yellow wings in color? :salute:: Chris

Chris, the movie is illustrative of a service readying itself for war. This isn't stated explicitly. Rather, it shows up in the paint schemes of the aircraft. The yellow-wings are painted and marked under regs adopted in 1937. However, new regulations put into effect in 1941 dictated the overall gray color that we see applied to many of the movie subjects. I've read the process itself became problematic during the filming, because the yellow-wings began to disappear, particularly among the front-line types belonging to carrier squadrons. Thank goodness that many of the planes came through in the peacetime scheme!

-Moe

 

[lancer]

Chris, the movie is illustrative of a service readying itself for war. This isn't stated explicitly. Rather, it shows up in the paint schemes of the aircraft. The yellow-wings are painted and marked under regs adopted in 1937. However, new regulations put into effect in 1941 dictated the overall gray color that we see applied to many of the movie subjects. I've read the process itself became problematic during the filming, because the yellow-wings began to disappear, particularly among the front-line types belonging to carrier squadrons. Thank goodness that many of the planes came through in the peacetime scheme!

-Moe

Thank heavens that overall gray scheme didn't last long. It was hideous. Even the bland blue over gray that followed was much better looking, and as it happened, the color scheme of victory. :wink2: -- Al

 

[Terp152]

Thank heavens that overall gray scheme didn't last long. It was hideous. Even the bland blue over gray that followed was much better looking, and as it happened, the color scheme of victory. :wink2: -- Al

I remember F15s were initially painted "air superiority blue." Cool title for a paint scheme. Didn't last long and subsequently changed to gray. :rolleyes2: Chris

 

[ivanmoe]

I remember F15s were initially painted "air superiority blue." Cool title for a paint scheme. Didn't last long and subsequently changed to gray. :rolleyes2: Chris

Hehe, model collectors hate that blue color. No one is ever happy with the results, and seem to believe that it's off in terms of tone. In point of fact, I just think that no one liked the real thing!:redface2:

-Moe

 

[lancer]

Thank heavens that overall gray scheme didn't last long. It was hideous. Even the bland blue over gray that followed was much better looking, and as it happened, the color scheme of victory. :wink2: -- Al

On the other hand, I really liked the Vietnam era USN color scheme of the gloss gray over white. Was a very handsome scheme. -- Al

 

[mestell]

I've been busy today rearranging my various ranges. I have a folding table that is 32-inches wide and 71-inches long. I have been using half of the table to display my six WB WWI trench sets w/British troops and the other half was used to photograph temporary dioramas and new acquisitions. I cleaned the table off . . . I have decided to use half of the table to display my JJD Inter-War Aviation collection and the other half will be used to display my future collection of JJD WWII carrier decks plates and carrier planes. My WWI collection is now located on the 33-inch square card table that I was using for my IWA display. When I placed my IWA "SARA" carrier deck plates on the folding table they didn't fight against each other very well due to a sag in the middle of the table where the hinge is so that it can be folded up for storage. So . . . . off to the lumber yard to get a 4-foot x 8-foot sheet of plywood which was nicely finished on one side with clear birch wood. I had the lumber yard rip it down into a 3-foot x 6-foot sheet. I also had the lumber yard cut the two scrap pieces into a 12-inch x 6-foot length and a 12-inch x 3-foot length. I glued and screwed the 12-inch x 6-foot scrap piece the entire back length of the plywood to help prevent any possibility of future sagging and I glued and screwed the 12-inch x 3-foot scrap piece to one end of the plywood to help prevent any possibility of bowing. The finished product rests nicely on top of the table and fits snugly into a corner area of my room. The IWA "SARA" deck plates now fit perfectly together and there is more than adequate room for both the IWA display and the WWII "BH" carrier deck display. My next step is to prime the plywood topper and then paint it an appropriate color that will compliment both displays . . . .

:smile2: Mike

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[Larry Allen]

I've been busy today rearranging my various ranges. I have a folding table that is 32-inches wide and 71-inches long. I have been using half of the table to display my six WB WWI trench sets w/British troops and the other half was used to photograph temporary dioramas and new acquisitions. I cleaned the table off . . . I have decided to use half of the table to display my JJD Inter-War Aviation collection and the other half will be used to display my future collection of JJD WWII carrier decks plates and carrier planes. My WWI collection is now located on the 33-inch square card table that I was using for my IWA display. When I placed my IWA "SARA" carrier deck plates on the folding table they didn't fight against each other very well due to a sag in the middle of the table where the hinge is so that it can be folded up for storage. So . . . . off to the lumber yard to get a 4-foot x 8-foot sheet of plywood which was nicely finished on one side with clear birch wood. I had the lumber yard rip it down into a 3-foot x 6-foot sheet. I also had the lumber yard cut the two scrap pieces into a 12-inch x 6-foot length and a 12-inch x 3-foot length. I glued and screwed the 12-inch x 6-foot scrap piece the entire back length of the plywood to help prevent any possibility of future sagging and I glued and screwed the 12-inch x 3-foot scrap piece to one end of the plywood to help prevent any possibility of bowing. The finished product rests nicely on top of the table and fits snugly into a corner area of my room. The IWA "SARA" deck plates now fit perfectly together and there is more than adequate room for both the IWA display and the WWII "BH" carrier deck display. My next step is to prime the plywood topper and then paint it an appropriate color that will compliment both displays . . . .

:smile2: Mike

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Mike, this is going to be really something special ...{sm3} I will definitely need to stay tuned to to see the progress.

Are you going (planning) on getting the two front deck sections to make the landing deck longer or do you think that the "SA" and "RA" sections will be adequate to hold the three planes and (up coming crew).

Space doesn't seem to be a issue now that you have those really nice plywood sections and many possibilities.

--- LaRRy

 

[mestell]

Mike, this is going to be really something special ...{sm3} I will definitely need to stay tuned to to see the progress.

Are you going (planning) on getting the two front deck sections to make the landing deck longer or do you think that the "SA" and "RA" sections will be adequate to hold the three planes and (up coming crew).

Space doesn't seem to be a issue now that you have those really nice plywood sections and many possibilities.

--- LaRRy

Thanks Larry . . . . The reason I decided to use the larger table format was because of the extra depth and length it offered me. My plans are to have four more deck plates (IWA-300 x 2 and IWA-400 x 2) for the Saratoga which will give me a carrier base approximately 30-inches square . . . . plenty of room for the three F4B-4's and all the deck crew figures as they become available. Also, this table will allow me to display the new WWII "BH" (Bunker Hill?) carrier deck plates. I plan to get 2 each of BH-100, BH-200, and BH-300 which would also give me a carrier deck display area of about 30 square inches. Plenaty of space for what i hope will be several WWII carrier based airplanes. This has become my main focus of collecting and will take me well into 2018.

:smile2: Mike

 

[villagehorse]

The deck plates are very nice, I have some sitting on my carrier under my Corsairs, highly recommend. Robin.

 

[Larry Allen]

Thanks Larry . . . . The reason I decided to use the larger table format was because of the extra depth and length it offered me. My plans are to have four more deck plates (IWA-300 x 2 and IWA-400 x 2) for the Saratoga which will give me a carrier base approximately 30-inches square . . . . plenty of room for the three F4B-4's and all the deck crew figures as they become available. Also, this table will allow me to display the new WWII "BH" (Bunker Hill?) carrier deck plates. I plan to get 2 each of BH-100, BH-200, and BH-300 which would also give me a carrier deck display area of about 30 square inches. Plenaty of space for what i hope will be several WWII carrier based airplanes. This has become my main focus of collecting and will take me well into 2018.

:smile2: Mike

I hear you Mike on the 2018 date ...

With the JJD IWA SARA series and now the JJD WWII Bunker Hill (?) series, I see my financial planning taking me well into 2018 and beyond.

Adding to my dilemma are Andy's the new USMC MARINES on Tarawa series and the continuation of the Japanese Naval Air and Ground forces.

A great time to be a TS collector though ..{sm4}

--- LaRRy

 

[jazzeum]

Mike,

That setup looks like it's going to great. I can't wait to see your progress in completing it. From the look of it, you should have plenty of room for planes.

I wonder if John contemplates making a bridge for the landing deck. That would be a great addition.

Brad

 

[mestell]

I hear you Mike on the 2018 date ...

With the JJD IWA SARA series and now the JJD WWII Bunker Hill (?) series, I see my financial planning taking me well into 2018 and beyond.

Adding to my dilemma are Andy's the new USMC MARINES on Tarawa series and the continuation of the Japanese Naval Air and Ground forces.

A great time to be a TS collector though ..{sm4}

--- LaRRy

Larry, have you seen K&C new carrier operations dio featuring their new TBM Avenger? It will be on display at teh Chicago show next week . . . . It is an awesome looking model. The Avenger torpedo bomber is my all time favorite WWII carrier based airplane. Looking forward to seeing it . . . .
:smile2: Mike