Shootings In El Paso (2 Viewers)

[Warrior]

350 million guns
Bullet proof backpacks
Woman with ARs in their prams

*** am I reading,George a bolt action rifle will kill a animal if you must go hunting when most foods can be bought in a shop.
A bolt action rifle is enough if you must protect yourself at home.
I cannot fathom the reason why civilians must own all these automatic weapons,well I can he has one so I need one.
Looking in from my quite country town in Western Australia where people get upset if the farmers shoot our pink and grey cockatoos for pinching their crops I just don't get it.

Ive held of commenting cause I/we here in Australia just cant fathom the carnage happening there and its so common like you said we are all becoming immune to it and that is scary in itself.
Having a beer in my RSL yesterday and its just "another shooting in the states" then move on to the next conversation so its no big deal now not "Shocking" even tho it is shocking.
We had our buy back scheme after our mass shooting but on a way way way smaller scale than the US could ever hope to do,well I reckon you could never over there now.
Mate I just cannot for the life of me think of a life when i go to the shop grab my keys,wallet,mobile and then say to the Missus,love you seen my AR15 I left it here some where,that how it seems looking in.

Again not making any judgement here but I just can't believe what I read on here some is so blase.
Hoping to get to Chicago next year where do I pick up my Assault rifle for the duration any one got a spare one lying around...........................I'm guessing yes.

You won't get any argument from me over assault rifles, "he's got one, so I want one"/it's one giant dick measuring contest, what is the point of owning such a weapon as a private citizen, maybe Red Dawn will really happen and we'll get invaded by Cuba, China and Russia, so we'll need well armed militia to take down the bad guys...……………………:rolleyes2:...…"We made a stand in the Rockies and stopped them cold".....arguably one of THE dumbest lines ever uttered in a movie.

My cousin went to a prestigious private high school here in Boston, went to the University of Pennsylvania, when he speaks he uses words I've never heard of, the blue blazer/gold button/grey slacks/white shirt/red tie/penny loafer type, or more to the point, the ascot/snifter of Brandy/smoking jacket and slippers type, yet get him talking about guns, the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms and he's ready to swap out his fancy duds for a camo vest, an orange Elmer Fudd hat, a tin of dip, a six pack of Billy Beer and a cannon to go hunting squirrels with, I tell him constantly to slow his roll with me and stay in his lane, I don't want to hear your views of guns, no one is coming to take your weapons, so dial it down a couple of notches there Wyatt Earp.

I'm anti gun, but I don't go ramming my ideals down other peoples throats, I'm entitled to my opinion just like my cousin who I'm convinced is going to go all Michael Douglas from Falling Down any day now, must be all the pressures of trying to keep up with Biff and Muffy from the country club.

As others have said, we're too far gone at this point as a country to reel things in and make any real changes; I mean seriously, what can be done at this point, where do you even begin?

With each mass shooting, I'm running out of places in public were I legitimately feel safe. I am shocked truthfully that we haven't had one of these at a sporting event, thousands of sitting ducks, imagine the carnage that would ensue at an event like that...…...sadly, it's coming...………….schools, hospitals, office buildings, post offices, churches, bars, night clubs, concerts, retail stores, restaurants, only a question of time before a sporting event is next.

One of THE dumbest things floated was after the Sandy Hook school shootings, the idea was raised to arm teachers...………...ah yeah, no. I can just see my third grade battle ax of a teacher who could scare the chrome of a trailer hitch having access to a firearm.

But hey, keep those wonderful solutions coming.

 

[marco55]

There really is no solution.No matter how much they try to spot a potential mass shooter some will slip through the cracks.How many of them already have their arsenal ready to go................................
Mark

 

[nysoldiers]

You won't get any argument from me over assault rifles, "he's got one, so I want one"/it's one giant dick measuring contest, what is the point of owning such a weapon as a private citizen, maybe Red Dawn will really happen and we'll get invaded by Cuba, China and Russia, so we'll need well armed militia to take down the bad guys...……………………:rolleyes2:...…"We made a stand in the Rockies and stopped them cold".....arguably one of THE dumbest lines ever uttered in a movie.

My cousin went to a prestigious private high school here in Boston, went to the University of Pennsylvania, when he speaks he uses words I've never heard of, the blue blazer/gold button/grey slacks/white shirt/red tie/penny loafer type, or more to the point, the ascot/snifter of Brandy/smoking jacket and slippers type, yet get him talking about guns, the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms and he's ready to swap out his fancy duds for a camo vest, an orange Elmer Fudd hat, a tin of dip, a six pack of Billy Beer and a cannon to go hunting squirrels with, I tell him constantly to slow his roll with me and stay in his lane, I don't want to hear your views of guns, no one is coming to take your weapons, so dial it down a couple of notches there Wyatt Earp.

I'm anti gun, but I don't go ramming my ideals down other peoples throats, I'm entitled to my opinion just like my cousin who I'm convinced is going to go all Michael Douglas from Falling Down any day now, must be all the pressures of trying to keep up with Biff and Muffy from the country club.

As others have said, we're too far gone at this point as a country to reel things in and make any real changes; I mean seriously, what can be done at this point, where do you even begin?

With each mass shooting, I'm running out of places in public were I legitimately feel safe. I am shocked truthfully that we haven't had one of these at a sporting event, thousands of sitting ducks, imagine the carnage that would ensue at an event like that...…...sadly, it's coming...………….schools, hospitals, office buildings, post offices, churches, bars, night clubs, concerts, retail stores, restaurants, only a question of time before a sporting event is next.

One of THE dumbest things floated was after the Sandy Hook school shootings, the idea was raised to arm teachers...………...ah yeah, no. I can just see my third grade battle ax of a teacher who could scare the chrome of a trailer hitch having access to a firearm.

But hey, keep those wonderful solutions coming.

George,
We agree on most but more relevant is that your writing skills are impressive......You could be the blue collar Neal Simon! Very poignant yet entertaining!

 

[wayne556517]

George,
We agree on most but more relevant is that your writing skills are impressive......You could be the blue collar Neal Simon! Very poignant yet entertaining!

Agree mate and always a good laugh the man has a great sense of humor.

 

[Warrior]

George,
We agree on most but more relevant is that your writing skills are impressive......You could be the blue collar Neal Simon! Very poignant yet entertaining!

Thanks Rich, I appreciate your kind words.

Trust me; in no way, shape or form am I making light of this situation, but that said, humor is my go to mechanism that gets me through life, so I am always looking for humor in every situation.

I love my cousin like a brother, we spent many a Saturday afternoon as kids staging massive carpet battles at each others houses with our Airfix ho/oo figures and he's the one who rejuvenated my interest in the hobby (it's a great story actually, I'll share it with you at some point), but we're at polar opposite ends of the spectrum on guns...………………...

 

[TomNT]

You won't get any argument from me over assault rifles, "he's got one, so I want one"/it's one giant dick measuring contest, what is the point of owning such a weapon as a private citizen, maybe Red Dawn will really happen and we'll get invaded by Cuba, China and Russia, so we'll need well armed militia to take down the bad guys...……………………:rolleyes2:...…"We made a stand in the Rockies and stopped them cold".....arguably one of THE dumbest lines ever uttered in a movie.

My cousin went to a prestigious private high school here in Boston, went to the University of Pennsylvania, when he speaks he uses words I've never heard of, the blue blazer/gold button/grey slacks/white shirt/red tie/penny loafer type, or more to the point, the ascot/snifter of Brandy/smoking jacket and slippers type, yet get him talking about guns, the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms and he's ready to swap out his fancy duds for a camo vest, an orange Elmer Fudd hat, a tin of dip, a six pack of Billy Beer and a cannon to go hunting squirrels with, I tell him constantly to slow his roll with me and stay in his lane, I don't want to hear your views of guns, no one is coming to take your weapons, so dial it down a couple of notches there Wyatt Earp.

I'm anti gun, but I don't go ramming my ideals down other peoples throats, I'm entitled to my opinion just like my cousin who I'm convinced is going to go all Michael Douglas from Falling Down any day now, must be all the pressures of trying to keep up with Biff and Muffy from the country club.

As others have said, we're too far gone at this point as a country to reel things in and make any real changes; I mean seriously, what can be done at this point, where do you even begin?

With each mass shooting, I'm running out of places in public were I legitimately feel safe. I am shocked truthfully that we haven't had one of these at a sporting event, thousands of sitting ducks, imagine the carnage that would ensue at an event like that...…...sadly, it's coming...………….schools, hospitals, office buildings, post offices, churches, bars, night clubs, concerts, retail stores, restaurants, only a question of time before a sporting event is next.

One of THE dumbest things floated was after the Sandy Hook school shootings, the idea was raised to arm teachers...………...ah yeah, no. I can just see my third grade battle ax of a teacher who could scare the chrome of a trailer hitch having access to a firearm.

But hey, keep those wonderful solutions coming.

George,
We agree on most but more relevant is that your writing skills are impressive......You could be the blue collar Neal Simon! Very poignant yet entertaining!

Totally agree! George mate, you should do stand up comedy, you'll have em rolling around the isles in fits of laughter and/or some embarrassing bodily function accidents/noises...

This is a serious subject though so I may post my opinion when I have some time. I can see and understand both sides of the argument.

Tom

 

[tdubel]

Yes, it truly is a mess.

You can't take back what people already have, that's never going to work, that horse left the barn and he's not coming back.

The problem is this should have been addressed a long, long time ago.
My exact dates are fuzzy, but the sniper in the tower in Texas was in the 1960's?
The mass shooting at the restaurant in Texas (Libby's/Lubby's/whatever) was in the late 1970's/early 1980's?
The McDonalds shooting in California was in the 1980's?
The mass shooting at Columbine high school in Colorado was in the late 1980's/early 1990's?
The Virginia tech shootings were in the mid to late 1990's?

Again, the time line is fuzzy...…………..something should have been done a long, long time ago, too many guns sold, too many people have them now, you can't undo what's already been done.

We all know the bottom line here; money fellas, it's all about the Benjamins, politicians lining their pockets, gun companies making **** tons of money, gun dealers selling automatic weapons faster than they can be produced, money, money, money.

The United States cracked down on the airlines because it had nothing to do with money, it had everything to do with God forbid if there were more hijacked planes flown into buildings, political heads would have rolled.

Essentially babies were killed at Sandy Hook and politicians blew smoke up everyones *****, wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth, this is horrible...…………..wait what; another shooting? Ok, let's move on to that one.

We already have a forum member who lost a relative in one of these senseless shootings; to me, that is one forum member/friend/known acquaintance too many...……………………my girlfriend travels quite a bit for work, I exhale whenever she texts me that she's at hotel so and so safe and sound, I'm sure she does the same when I go to a show and text her I got there in one piece...………..I pray to the man upstairs I never get "THE CALL/TEXT/WHATEVER" about any of my loved ones or friends.

I hope for the same for each and every one of you...……….(and Tom, we've discussed this, but I am truly sorry for you and your families loss over a foolish, senseless thing).

Thanks George, as I said we agree on a lot of things.
TD

 

[tdubel]

Tom,
You may have noted I "liked" (ie. agreed with) Desertkiwi's response. Since you asked him to explain I will tell you why he was right to say "unbelievable".

You say a nutter or criminal will get the same result with a bomb, knife, bat or blackjack. This defies common sense. Bombs were mentioned earlier in the thread and there is a lot more involved in making and using one than an A15 etc. The other options you mention are hand held and require the culprit to get within arms length to strike. The potential victims have much greater chance to get away or even fight back. Using this type of reasoning to support your views does not help much. It is like you don't get the connection with lax gun control and the mass killings that it causes. But hey, it will still happen if we did not have guns. It is the easy access to guns, designed to kill, with multiple ammo capability that is the cause of this unique USA problem.

John from Texas has put up a list to suggest it happens elsewhere. Some are actually terrorist attacks (Hebdo, Mumbai, Peshawar). After Port Arthur and Christchurch the Prime Ministers took immediate action. Norway was a nutter.

Unfortunately the situation is too far gone in the USA.

I think people's views on this is determined by background. I never knew a household with a gun as a kid as simply not a thing in the UK or places where I lived overseas. When I joined the Royal Hong Kong Police one of my jobs was to conduct arms licence checks. This involved going to owners home to check security etc. It in involved mainly checking spearguns at home and security guards and their shotguns in local banks. Gun ownership was not a thing except for members of shooting clubs which were very tightly controlled. If an AK47 turned up it was being used by ex Army criminals from China during a major robbery.

You are complying with the gun regulations and training your son in proper gun use. That is not an issue for me at all and I might do the same if I grew up in USA. My issue is with you saying there would still be mass killings with the options you mention so therefore should keep the guns.

Perhaps the red flag stuff might work to save some lives. Hopefully it does.

Brett,
again, I have posted this ad nauseum and I guess either it doesn't translate well down under or whatever, but as I said, the person or perp whether it be terrorist, criminal, insane idiot, etc is the person pulling the trigger. The gun at the end of the day didn't do it. It was the weapon, but they don't fire on their own. As George said, the horse left the barn along time ago in our Country with its population. Also, we have the 2nd amendment, it is part of our Bill of Rights and it is not changing. Those are our facts.

Regarding the post, I don't take kindly to sarcastic mud throwing and treatment of my viewpoint as coming from a gun nut. That is not what I am and I don't appreciate it. And I am proud of the America I live in with our freedoms and I am not trading them. I believe in education and law enforcement, hopefully we continue to get better at each. I also believe there are a lot of weapons out there that give me pause. I recently attended 4 music concerts this year with large crowds, and the possibility of an attack definitely crossed my mind. Ever since 9/11, that sits in the back of most American minds any time you are around a large crowd or gathering. There are a lot of terrorists walking freely in the US, there are a lot of criminals, we are a huge population, end of day, it doesn't prevent me from living life to the fullest just like my own family tragedy doesn't. It unfortunately is a fact of our modern day history.

My post is not meant as a sarcastic argument or insult, just a reiteration of my views.

TD

 

[The Military Workshop]

Tom,
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

However should you come to Australia or I visit North America we will have to settle this argument in the old fashioned way. A duel at dawn.

Regarding weapons I have a sneaky feeling that you would have an advantage over me with a gun so that rules them out. Swords and knives are way too messy. I have absolutely no idea where to source a blackjack (I think also known as a cosh) so it will have to be bats at ten paces. You with a baseball bat and me with a cricket bat. Appropriate head gear to be worn of course. Nearest to the target wins.

Please note I said North America and this does not include Hawaii. That is counted as neutral territory since they are still flying the British flag.

For those who picked up on my Chicago show comment I can only advise against travelling there on St Valentines Day.

 

[tdubel]

Tom,
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

However should you come to Australia or I visit North America we will have to settle this argument in the old fashioned way. A duel at dawn.

Regarding weapons I have a sneaky feeling that you would have an advantage over me with a gun so that rules them out. Swords and knives are way too messy. I have absolutely no idea where to source a blackjack (I think also known as a cosh) so it will have to be bats at ten paces. You with a baseball bat and me with a cricket bat. Appropriate head gear to be worn of course. Nearest to the target wins.

Please note I said North America and this does not include Hawaii. That is counted as neutral territory since they are still flying the British flag.

For those who picked up on my Chicago show comment I can only advise against travelling there on St Valentines Day.

Brett,

That is fair, like I said, George said, this is a topic where 50% think one way, 50% the other. I think we should play a good old fashioned poker game, winner take all. That way I can smoke a cigar, enjoy a bourbon and "win" this argument...………

Tom

 

[The Military Workshop]

Brett,

That is fair, like I said, George said, this is a topic where 50% think one way, 50% the other. I think we should play a good old fashioned poker game, winner take all. That way I can smoke a cigar, enjoy a bourbon and "win" this argument...………

Tom

What !? They still allow you to smoke over there. Don't tell me the National Cigar Association has DC lobbyists as well.

 

[wds0855]

One of THE dumbest things floated was after the Sandy Hook school shootings, the idea was raised to arm teachers...………...ah yeah, no. I can just see my third grade battle ax of a teacher who could scare the chrome of a trailer hitch having access to a firearm.

But hey, keep those wonderful solutions coming.

I remember hearing that too, and I thought it was quite dumb also.

But does anyone think it feasible or practical that school districts provide armed security guards at elementary or even secondary schools? If there is an armed guard at the main entrance and other entrances are locked, would that be a deterrent? Sandy Hook was really terrible. I would not want to see that happen anywhere again.

Walt

 

[Warrior]

I remember hearing that too, and I thought it was quite dumb also.

But does anyone think it feasible or practical that school districts provide armed security guards at elementary or even secondary schools? If there is an armed guard at the main entrance and other entrances are locked, would that be a deterrent? Sandy Hook was really terrible. I would not want to see that happen anywhere again.

Walt

Well again my memory may be fuzzy, but at one the most recent school shootings (I've honestly lost track of them at this point...…...), wasn't there some sort of security guard who was either nowhere to be found or on his four hour break while the shooting was going on?

Not to mention; what pool are these fellas going to be drawn from? The "I couldn't serve my country/become a police officer/become a prison guard/no armored truck company would take me/my crossing guard career never took off/I whacked some old bag over the head with a bag of oranges and lost my Walmart greeters job/I ran someone over with my scooter as a mall security guard and Paul Blart fired me/I took this job so I can walk around the school with my pants tucked into my boots so I can look like a G.I. Joe wannabe" pool?

Some bozo making 16.75 an hour is going to take down some grade A fruitloop armed to the teeth, he's more likely to soil himself than take down an armed intruder.

Arming people is not the answer; taking away the ability of a person with an IQ two above plant life and being angry at the world to get his hands on a firearm is the solution.

All of this after the fact stuff does no good...…………….now Walmart has security guards in place after the horse left the barn, now is too late for all the people who died a week or so ago.

Besides, in the fog of war if there is an active shooter and you've got some wannabe running around half cocked as it were and the police enter the school, who's the active shooter, who's the security guard unless he has a spiffy uniform. I heard some nonsense about the Aurora movie theater shootings that if someone in that crowd was armed, they would have taken down the shooter and ended it.

Either that or he would have shot someone in front of him by mistake, hit someone running out of the theater or died in a hail of gunfire as the police entered the cinema, saw him with a pistol and filled him so full of holes he whistled like peanut wagon...…………………...

 

[theBaron]

"Arming teachers" is a bit of a distortion. That implies handing weapons to teachers, regardless of what they want to do, then providing them training, etc. No one proposed that. It would be more accurate to say that it was proposed that school districts would allow teachers who wanted to, to carry concealed weapons.

 

[Warrior]

"Arming teachers" is a bit of a distortion. That implies handing weapons to teachers, regardless of what they want to do, then providing them training, etc. No one proposed that. It would be more accurate to say that it was proposed that school districts would allow teachers who wanted to, to carry concealed weapons.

Again; Miss Carty (because what sane individual would marry that old bag; she had two modes of transportation to school, a car and a broom), Joyce Kilmer Elementary School, West Roxbury MA circa 1968, packing?

Nope, nada, not a good idea.

I could just see some clambrain who was filling in for the regular guy who delivers the lunches for the cafeteria coming through the wrong door, setting off an alarm, three teachers spring into action and come running out of their classrooms guns blazing, filling him and that cardboard with confetti and ketchup on it that passes as pizza full of holes.

Oops, wrong guy, wrong place.

 

[hotel3alpha]

All,

A time out here to TRY and stop laughing form Georges descriptions of people and his cousin. By God George Im still reeling over the "Civil War Era post office lady" from another innocuous post. You know your around good people when you can crack a laugh about your/ourselves in a tough discussion. You were close George but it was LUBY'S Cafeteria in the late 80's and man that was terrible incident. And yes the Texas Tower Sniper is still haunting every time you see the Tower from the highway in Austin. I also remember the McDonalds shooting in the 80's when I was a kid and thanks for making us reach back further into the discussion/debate.

Sad but true, in light of the shooting I had to text my kids who were recently traveling back to Texas to "always check your six" when you are "out there". This was not the first time I had to text them about the "six" and it won't be there last. Sad but true. In relation to the discussion, I remember Australia making sweeping reforms after the Port Arthur mass shooting in the 90's when I was in Japan and honestly I was like "wow, that would never happen in the US". Again sad but true.

Here in the US we are stuck and blessed with what we got from our founders via the 2nd Amendment and the Bill of Rights. I honestly would not trade those sacred words for nothing. But, I too am disgruntled and fed up with the senseless mass shootings and murders via weapons. So, I think a moderate change, addition, policy or whatever is in order to curb the gun related violence. As pontificated by my brethren here and I believe (and we all agree) it will not stop el nutso from doing again, but it will sure make it harder and hopefully rarer.

Ole walmart boy is in lockdown and separated from the inmate population in El Paso. I'm guessing the inmate population in the El Paso cooler is probably 95% Hispanic and he may of forgot about that in the "if I get taken alive" part his manifesto. He's a dead man walking and I don't think he will make it to the "bed". Meanwhile, all this extra security and what not for his dumb *** is being paid for by the tax payer. Sad but true.

And lastly...well probably not...when the arming teachers idea came out I too thought back to my days in school and also the current crop of teachers for my kids and was like "OH HELL NO". Suprisingly, I'm not too worried about that idea because all the school district cops here in Texas have to be licensed Texas Peace Officers and they actually have a mini-department at my kids high school. As TXPO they have as much authority as any other regular cop, armed to the teeth and everyone knows it.

John from Texas

PS: The best cousin description by our own George in the history of the forum is below:

"My cousin went to a prestigious private high school here in Boston, went to the University of Pennsylvania, when he speaks he uses words I've never heard of, the blue blazer/gold button/grey slacks/white shirt/red tie/penny loafer type, or more to the point, the ascot/snifter of Brandy/smoking jacket and slippers type, yet get him talking about guns, the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms and he's ready to swap out his fancy duds for a camo vest, an orange Elmer Fudd hat, a tin of dip, a six pack of Billy Beer and a cannon to go hunting squirrels with, I tell him constantly to slow his roll with me and stay in his lane, I don't want to hear your views of guns, no one is coming to take your weapons, so dial it down a couple of notches there Wyatt Earp."

 

[ccdc11]

I could just see some clambrain who was filling in for the regular guy who delivers the lunches for the cafeteria coming through the wrong door, setting off an alarm, three teachers spring into action and come running out of their classrooms guns blazing, filling him and that cardboard with confetti and ketchup on it that passes as pizza full of holes.

Based on my reconciliations of the quality of my high school cafeteria food.. this may be justifiable homicide....

 

[Warrior]

All,

A time out here to TRY and stop laughing form Georges descriptions of people and his cousin. By God George Im still reeling over the "Civil War Era post office lady" from another innocuous post. You know your around good people when you can crack a laugh about your/ourselves in a tough discussion. You were close George but it was LUBY'S Cafeteria in the late 80's and man that was terrible incident. And yes the Texas Tower Sniper is still haunting every time you see the Tower from the highway in Austin. I also remember the McDonalds shooting in the 80's when I was a kid and thanks for making us reach back further into the discussion/debate.


PS: The best cousin description by our own George in the history of the forum is below:

"My cousin went to a prestigious private high school here in Boston, went to the University of Pennsylvania, when he speaks he uses words I've never heard of, the blue blazer/gold button/grey slacks/white shirt/red tie/penny loafer type, or more to the point, the ascot/snifter of Brandy/smoking jacket and slippers type, yet get him talking about guns, the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms and he's ready to swap out his fancy duds for a camo vest, an orange Elmer Fudd hat, a tin of dip, a six pack of Billy Beer and a cannon to go hunting squirrels with, I tell him constantly to slow his roll with me and stay in his lane, I don't want to hear your views of guns, no one is coming to take your weapons, so dial it down a couple of notches there Wyatt Earp."

Thanks John, just trying to lighten the mood, looks like it worked...……….:wink2:

As far as the comedy; sometimes the material writes itself...……………….^&grin.

 

[Warrior]

Based on my reconciliations of the quality of my high school cafeteria food.. this may be justifiable homicide....

No argument form me, that high school pizza makes ice hockey rink pizza look like five star dining...………..

 

[Go for Broke]

I don't understand why people think arming teachers, private citizens, etc. will stop a determined shooter with a rifle. These citizens have no training and/or fire discipline. Being able to shoot on the range and learning gun safety is not enough to confront a shooter. I worry that the good guys would shoot each other in the confusion.