Corona virus (1 Viewer)

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No one knows how long this is going to take. It’s impossible to say.

As far as young people not thinking it’s going to affect them, in France half of the sick are young.

The federal government’s response has been putrid. However, part of the problem is that our public health system is not centralized like other countries; one state may take a certain action but another may take a different action.
 
Good point posted here is no one knows, yup, that's true. Are people going to die, yup, they do every day. I am not sure where some statistics came from on here regarding this being 10 times worse than the "flu", if I can read and I think I can, the CDC and WHO both list influenza as a major killer on an annual basis. Who does it kill? Predominatly older folks or people with prexisting conditions. It also kills healthy people who don't either take care of themselves once sick or do not seek help. As I said before, I will go about life as I can, if I feel bad, I will quarantine and get help like I would for any sickness. The hysteria that is on the daily news is just ludicrous and in my opinion is not helping anything at all. Additionally, this is not the Federal Governments fault, they are reacting the best they can like everyone else, there are 50 States and 1 District with all different governments who are doing the same thing. They are working through it, I don't even want to hear how one side this bS, b/c that's what it is - bs.

I see some of the posts on here and I guess it defines exactly how some react and how they cope, fine, but not all of us think the same way. I will do my usual which is march to my own beat, keep calm and carry on and if I think this is idiotic in a lot of respests, so be it, I do. Common sense is a wonderful thing to have, I wish a lot of people would stop and think and then do that, use their common sense.

TD
 
tdubel said:
Good point posted here is no one knows, yup, that's true. Are people going to die, yup, they do every day. I am not sure where some statistics came from on here regarding this being 10 times worse than the "flu", if I can read and I think I can, the CDC and WHO both list influenza as a major killer on an annual basis. Who does it kill? Predominatly older folks or people with prexisting conditions. It also kills healthy people who don't either take care of themselves once sick or do not seek help. As I said before, I will go about life as I can, if I feel bad, I will quarantine and get help like I would for any sickness. The hysteria that is on the daily news is just ludicrous and in my opinion is not helping anything at all. Additionally, this is not the Federal Governments fault, they are reacting the best they can like everyone else, there are 50 States and 1 District with all different governments who are doing the same thing. They are working through it, I don't even want to hear how one side this bS, b/c that's what it is - bs.

I see some of the posts on here and I guess it defines exactly how some react and how they cope, fine, but not all of us think the same way. I will do my usual which is march to my own beat, keep calm and carry on and if I think this is idiotic in a lot of respests, so be it, I do. Common sense is a wonderful thing to have, I wish a lot of people would stop and think and then do that, use their common sense.

TD
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Hi Tom, I hope it will be under control shortly. I listen to the health experts not the pundits or the politicians. As far as the death rate the CDC and NIH have stated that the flu death rate is 0.1% of cases and the C-virus will have a +1% rate which is 10X.
While it is definitely more dangerous for the elderly and people with underlying health issues we now know that younger people are dying in both France and Italy. If I am not mistaken the WHO along with our health experts are saying that quarantines and social distance are required to stop the spread.
It seems logical that the more people who contract the virus the higher the death toll will be. And the younger population who feel immune may not get very sick but will surely spread the virus to the older population and the sickly.
The criticism of the current administration is more about messaging.....it went from "hoax" to "conspiracy" to "under control" to a national emergency. Let the Doctors and scientists give us the right information on a timely basis without political bias.
We'll get through this but we should not take it lightly. Common sense in this case will not work and letting the states make their own strategies won't work either. This is a case where the federal government needs to step up and have a cohesive policy. If NY closes stores and restaurants and NJ doesn't where do you think New Yorkers will go? And spread the virus in their journey.
I am going to follow the advice and directives of the Health care community especially because I am in the "older folks" category.
 
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Don't make the mistake of taking this virus too lightly.

I've seen a number of different quotes regarding the mortality rate of COVID-019 Versus Influenza.


Below is a quote from a situation report issued by the World Health Organization issued March 6. I have bolded the relevant mortality percentages.

"Mortality for COVID-19 appears higher than for influenza, especially seasonal influenza. While the true mortality of COVID-19 will take some time to fully understand, the data we have so far indicate that the crude mortality ratio (the number of reported deaths divided by the reported cases) is between 3-4%, the infection mortality rate (the number of reported deaths divided by the number of infections) will be lower. For seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%. However, mortality is to a large extent determined by access to and quality of health care."

Previously I have noted from others sources that the mortality rate for Influenza is about 1% - 2%, however the above WHO advice states it's less than 0.1%. That's a significant difference for Influenza rates quotes imo, and don't forget that these mortality rates are across the population. I suspect the mortality rate for COVID 19 will be significantly higher than Influenza, especially in the elderly and low immunity groups.

So yeah, who knows what the actual rate is, suffice to say it's not something you'd want to catch, or pass on to someone else.
 
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nysoldiers said:
Hi Tom, I hope it will be under control shortly. I listen to the health experts not the pundits or the politicians. As far as the death rate the CDC and NIH have stated that the flu death rate is 0.1% of cases and the C-virus will have a +1% rate which is 10X.
While it is definitely more dangerous for the elderly and people with underlying health issues we now know that younger people are dying in both France and Italy. If I am not mistaken the WHO along with our health experts are saying that quarantines and social distance are required to stop the spread.
It seems logical that the more people who contract the virus the higher the death toll will be. And the younger population who feel immune may not get very sick but will surely spread the virus to the older population and the sickly.
The criticism of the current administration is more about messaging.....it went from "hoax" to "conspiracy" to "under control" to a national emergency. Let the Doctors and scientists give us the right information on a timely basis without political bias.
We'll get through this but we should not take it lightly. Common sense in this case will not work and letting the states make their own strategies won't work either. This is a case where the federal government needs to step up and have a cohesive policy. If NY closes stores and restaurants and NJ doesn't where do you think New Yorkers will go? And spread the virus in their journey.
I am going to follow the advice and directives of the Health care community especially because I am in the "older folks" category.
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Ditto for me regarding the last sentence, which I have bolded.

In addition, the CDC is recommending against events of larger than 50 people. This would require the cancellation of toy soldier shows going forward.
 
What surprises me is how haphazard the official response has been. It's like no one ever anticipated a pandemic. You would think there would be a plan in place that would result in an orderly chain of events. A phase 1 in which x, y, and z are done and phase 2 and so forth. Instead it seems like a reactive ad hoc approach. That is not the fault of any one person but the entire system dating back for years. The knee jerk reaction is to throw a lot of money at the problem after the genie is out of the bottle and point fingers. You see this time and again. No one wants to pay for preventative measures. They want to wait until the disaster occurs and then react to it when there is longer a choice and it ends up costing ten times more. Look at all the major population centers built in earthquake and fire zones where it is not a question of if but when they will be destroyed.
 
in Italy 368 deads in 24 hours, every day the number almost doubles..
 
jazzeum said:
Here is the official guidance from the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...vents/mass-gatherings-ready-for-covid-19.html

In addition, MLB is contemplating a season opening on or around Memorial Day.
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With all due respect to the CDC, that particular announcement is odd in that it says no gatherings for 8 weeks, yes it says 8 weeks when everything else currently is to the end of March. Next paragraph, it says and quote:
This recommendation does not apply to the day to day operation of organizations such as ​
schools, institutes of higher learning, or businesses
. This recommendation is made in an attempt to reduce introduction of the virus into new communities and to slow the spread of infection in communities already affected by the virus. This recommendation is not intended to supersede the advice of local public health officials

Huh? Are not schools larger than 50 people? The CDC has seemingly contributed to the hysteria. Our hospitals and infrastructure can handle people who get sick, get in accidents, heart attacks, etc. What it cannot handle is panic and hysteria of folks who think they might have Corona and then rushing and innundating the system. Unfortunatley, we can't handle that and the constant barrage of hysterics is not good. I am not on here posting cavalier or anything of the sort, I just use common sense and it has seemed to work through the Bird flu, the pig flu, H1N1 and all the rest. If its my time, its my time, but this one IMO is not going to be it.

As to the critique of the Federal Goverment, they are performing on par with every other administration in a time of crisis, no matter how much or little you are prepared, you just are not. It took some time, so they will get it right, as i said previously , there are 50 plus other fifedoms who also think they are the smartest in the room. We have one in Maryland right now who is not doing the best job either of preaching calmness and control. He is as much an idiot in this situation as all other 50 plus are too. None of them seem to know what to do other than to keep "banning" things, seems to be the generic response. Will it work, who knows, there are 330 Million people in this country. If we end up with 100,000 cases, what does that mean? What does 10,000 cases mean? What does 1M cases mean? If it stops in 2 weeks, what does that mean? I don't know, but if it is truly a virus, then you fight it like any other viral disease , that is about all you can do. Here is a question to ponder - next year if we have a really bad "flu" season, are they going to cancel all of the events all over again? No one wants any disease but this one somehow has taken hold of reality and we are going to be paying for it for a long time. The economic effect of these decisions Right or Wrong is going to cost the average American for a good time to come.

If I had to critique, I would appreciate a far better coordinated response between our politicians (Fed and State) and our medical experts, it is a disjointed mess. You have the Governor of Ohio spouting off that he knows he has 100,000 cases alone...………………………….with no medical evidence whatsoever, he just knows it, that is hysteria. He very well may have the cases, but I don't think getting on national tv and looking like a fool is the right response and there is too much of that in this entire mess.

Sorry for the font on the copy from the CDC website.
TD
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Lots of good posts here and its interesting to read all the differing points of view.

Regardless of all the media hype this is clearly a rapidly changing situation affecting the worlds population and economic climate with a recession likely.
 
The response is a disjointed mess because the federal government’s reaction has been chaotic and has not given clear direction to the states so it has been left up to the states to take control of the situation, and their response has not been uniform. Moreover, the president has not been consistent in his approach. Frankly, I wish he’d get out of the way and let Pence and the experts do their job. Only now will we be getting tests to determine the true number of cases. Once testing is carried out, the number of cases is expected to shoot up, not necessarily because there are a lot of new cases but because these cases exist already and tests will confirm their existence.

In other countries, one person sets the rules and provincial and local governments follow. Part of the problem is also that we don’t have a unified public health system and the nature of our federal system; this crisis is laying them low.

Tom, you’re comparing this with the flu and other viral diseases but the mortality rate for this one is higher; flu is around .1%, Coronavirus higher so far.

By the way, you are better protected from the Coronavirus if you have a flu shot. If you haven’t had one, now is a good time to get it.

This is anecdotal but I think that if you’re in a less populated area of a state, there are less cases. In NJ, many of the cases are from urban areas where the less urban areas have, so far, fewer cases. The three most urban counties in NJ have over half the cases (52 out of 98). My county is semi rural and we have only four so far and I think two of those are from Morristown. Nonetheless, our town has shut down everything. The Library shuts down today for at least a month.
 
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Interesting statement today,,"with everyone home from work ,school etc attendance at movie theaters should be greatly increased",,yeah ok,,,like the hoards of overseas travelers returning crammed in airports close together from infested countrys,,who say they are getting no health checks,,,,bring out your dead,,
 
nysoldiers said:
The only way to slow down the spread and give our health care system time to prepare is cutting down social contact drastically.
Last night in NYC the bars and restaurants were crowded. The establishments were not even following the new laws to cut their occupancy by
50% so people are not on top of one another. It was mostly younger people, like college students who are now home, and those who think
they are not vulnerable because of their age. They may not get seriously ill but they will spread the disease.
Letting each state decide on when to close down business and schools is crazy. NYC is closing stores but NJ is open so the traffic goes there
with the potential of more infections.
The NY governor has asked the President to start using the Army Engineers Corp. to construct or refit facilities for Hospital care and ICU's.
Convert college dormitories and gymnasiums, open up emergency stocks of medical equipment....respirators, masks, protective clothing, etc.
If we wait any longer we will end up like Italy where they are now forced to decide who will live and die based on strained resources.
I am very disappointed in our Federal government response........from "hoax" to "under control" to finally realizing this is a real emergency and
finally listening to the experts not the pundits!
As seniors my wife and I are laying low, staying home and taking walks in the woods or less traveled paths. I stocked up on food and necessities
three weeks ago when I first heard about this virus. We are keeping our distance even from our grandchildren whose schools are now closed.
My son and daughter who work for Microsoft and Chanel are now working from home. They have a schedule for their children to home study,
play in the back yard, watch television and play games.
It will be a different world for the next year or two.
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Wait until the NFL is canceled
 
Some irony for me when I hear everyone clamoring for a vaccine. Back when my daughter was going through treatment for leukemia she had neutropenia which means effectively that she had no white blood cells to fight disease. I suggested to her private school that perhaps they consider requiring students to get the flu shot. They refused out of concern for angering parents. In fact, they had a few kids that didn't get any vaccines because their parents opposed. They wouldn't even entertain the notion of encouraging kids to get the flu shot in newsletters or by having a nurse come to the school one day and give them for free. The anti-vaxers effectively spooked otherwise intelligent people into putting their kids at risk. And, of course, they had a flu outbreak that nearly shut the school down. Even after that they refused to even consider requirming students to get the flu shot. So don't count on a new vaccine accomplishing much if folks won't take it due to bizarre conspiracy theories etc.
 
I never understood what motivates the anti vaccine crowd.
 
Combat said:
Some irony for me when I hear everyone clamoring for a vaccine. Back when my daughter was going through treatment for leukemia she had neutropenia which means effectively that she had no white blood cells to fight disease. I suggested to her private school that perhaps they consider requiring students to get the flu shot. They refused out of concern for angering parents. In fact, they had a few kids that didn't get any vaccines because their parents opposed. They wouldn't even entertain the notion of encouraging kids to get the flu shot in newsletters or by having a nurse come to the school one day and give them for free. The anti-vaxers effectively spooked otherwise intelligent people into putting their kids at risk. And, of course, they had a flu outbreak that nearly shut the school down. Even after that they refused to even consider requirming students to get the flu shot. So don't count on a new vaccine accomplishing much if folks won't take it due to bizarre conspiracy theories etc.
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Very sad but true. Heh there are still people who think the earth is flat!
You have to go with the science and data.......vaccines have saved millions if not billions of lives and our quality of life.
Every medicine has potential side effects but we go with the percentages and risks of not treating the illness.
If for religious or fear issues you won't vaccinate then prepare to be isolated. In the case of pandemics and lethal diseases vaccines should be compulsory. You don't have the right to put other innocents in danger when the science is overwhelmingly supporting the life saving results of vaccination.
 
nysoldiers said:
Very sad but true. Heh there are still people who think the earth is flat!
You have to go with the science and data.......vaccines have saved millions if not billions of lives and our quality of life.
Every medicine has potential side effects but we go with the percentages and risks of not treating the illness.
If for religious or fear issues you won't vaccinate then prepare to be isolated. In the case of pandemics and lethal diseases vaccines should be compulsory. You don't have the right to put other innocents in danger when the science is overwhelmingly supporting the life saving results of vaccination.
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I don't disagree with this necessarily, but let me give one further thought as to why I feel the way I do. Again, not posting this to be cavalier or crass or non sympathetic as that is furthest from the truth. I have never had a Flu shot in my life (yes I have had any and all other vaccines!). In my family, all generations have passed on it, it goes back to my grandmother on my mothers' side. I have never had the shot nor ever had physical over symptoms of the flu, I guess I am either lucky or that is my genetics. So, hence the reason that I would be apprehensive getting one. I guess in some ways I have always been a gambler and I am playing the odds as they apply to me. I don't know why I have never got any form of it, but I consider it lucky in a lot of regards.

TD
 
tdubel said:
I don't disagree with this necessarily, but let me give one further thought as to why I feel the way I do. Again, not posting this to be cavalier or crass or non sympathetic as that is furthest from the truth. I have never had a Flu shot in my life (yes I have had any and all other vaccines!). In my family, all generations have passed on it, it goes back to my grandmother on my mothers' side. I have never had the shot nor ever had physical over symptoms of the flu, I guess I am either lucky or that is my genetics. So, hence the reason that I would be apprehensive getting one. I guess in some ways I have always been a gambler and I am playing the odds as they apply to me. I don't know why I have never got any form of it, but I consider it lucky in a lot of regards.

TD
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Yes, some people have stronger immune systems but you are still young and with new stronger strains and aging you may be taking a serious risk.
I didn't take flu shots until two years ago and my doctors scolded me because of my age and contact with grandchildren. I did get the flu but it was
very mild.
You're a good guy so please take care of yourself.
 
France just reported that 50% of their C-virus deaths were with people under the age of 65
and 25% under the age of 50.
So its not just killing the old and sick.
 
On a positive note......the C-Virus is not airborne like the flu. You catch it from droplets directly from a cough or sneeze or touching an infected surface.
If you wash your hands thoroughly and keep social distance the virus can be prevented. Also 80% of people who get the virus will have either minimal
symptoms or none at all.
So we can beat this with discipline and cooperation. We still must listen to our health experts and be vigilant.
I agree that panic is not going to help the situation and while our life styles will be affected in time things will calm down.
A good time to catch up on reading, exercising, spending time with family, taking long walks, playing with toy soldiers
and watching old movies.
Stay well!
 
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